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Algae to the rescue |
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| May23-10, 07:17 PM | #477 |
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Algae to the rescue
Speaking of incentive
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...67#post2729867 |
| May23-10, 08:02 PM | #478 |
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| May23-10, 08:46 PM | #479 |
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I will quote from the other thread and redirect any additional discussion here
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| May23-10, 09:00 PM | #480 |
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Note that there are some strains of algae that release neurotoxins. Obviously these strains are not considered viable candidates for fuel production. They do present a real threat, however, to anyone working with algae. It is important to know what you're dealing with. Toxic, invasive strains, could be an issue if not checked. Again, a batch process helps to minimize this concern.
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| May23-10, 09:01 PM | #481 |
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Ok moved here ...
I might be wrong, but I believe the lightweight aromatics (e.g. benzene) are the most toxic compounds contained in the mixture commonly called petroleum. We know they evaporate fairly quickly. So, once the aromatics are gone in a spill like this, and reports suggest they are, I'm curious about the difference in toxicity, or more precisely the harm, between the petroleum products remaining after evaporation, and the oil produced by a biodeisel grade algae. |
| May23-10, 09:23 PM | #482 |
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Would you drink motor oil? Don't try to spin this as if there is no difference between crude oil, and food. That is a ludicrous position to assume. The potential problem of releasing bioengineered strains of algae into the wild, is another concern. But I would prefer that discussion be redirected to a dedicated thread, as that is a huge topic generally for all of biology. One immediate thought that comes to mind is that, if algae are famous for doing anything, it is mutating. Given the countless strains of algae found around the world. And considering the existing rate of mutation for natural algae, it seems that we would be hard-pressed, by many orders of magnitude, to pose a greater threat than already exists in nature, to produce a dangerous strain of algae. We could also design strains to be safe. Nature has no such motivation. In fact, it is my understanding that algae essentially have wars when strains are competing the wild. In effect, each strain mutates until one produces something toxic to the other. |
| May24-10, 03:01 AM | #483 |
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Algae is great, most of the treehuggers out there don't realize the majority of oxygen is being released by algae and not trees (I am not justifying deforestation, I strongly oppose it). Not to mention it is capable of producing bio mass as much as 30x times faster than any plant, making ethanol production from corn or soy look moronic at best. The byproduct of oil production from algae is a good food additive for farm animals. There are also many more potential benefits, what is critical is the actual execution, as we, humans have a history of misusing everything good we come in contact with. Genetic engineering should be outlawed, its potential benefits far being far exceeded by its potential harm. No need to play gods and trying to better nature, all we need is to stop destroying it and if we have the resource - helping out a bit, but without playing Dr. Frankenstein |
| May24-10, 04:29 PM | #484 |
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Edit: Another point as to why quantity must be important: there's always some background natural seepage of oil, several million bbl per year worldwide, which the oceans seem to have well tolerated long before oil rigs appeared. |
| May25-10, 02:21 PM | #485 |
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On this subject, this study is interesting to me for two reasons: 1) the background material gives some chemical description of what components of a petroleum spill actually end up on the beaches, and tangentially 2) it turns out biodiesel has been shown effective in breaking up the 'waxy' components. The study also notes that biodiesel is readily biodegradable, but I'm not clear that this means its parent triglyceride are also equally degradable before transesterification.
Stimulating the Biodegradation of Crude Oil with Biodiesel Preliminary Results Spill Science & Technology Bulletin Volume 5, Issues 5-6, 1 October 1999, Pages 353-355 |
| May25-10, 02:50 PM | #486 |
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EPA to the rescue with the answer to my question and then some. Apparently the answer is quite complex.
In 1994 a gaggle of agricultural associations attempted have the EPA change the Clear Water Act rules and label them (oils and fats vendors) more or less harmless, as different from the 'bad' and 'toxic' petroleum products industry. The 'petitioners' were the American Soybean Association, the Corn Refiners Association, the National Corn Growers Association, the Institute of Shortening & Edible Oils, the National Cotton Council, the National Cottonseed Products Association, and the National Oilseed Processors Association. http://www.epa.gov/EPA-WATER/1999/Ap...y-08/w8275.htm Like petroleum oils, animal fats and vegetable oils and their constituents can cause toxic effects that are summarized below. They can:
The EPA's exploration of the technical background is very interesting. |
| May25-10, 03:26 PM | #487 |
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Technical section:
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| Mar11-12, 12:07 PM | #488 |
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| Mar11-12, 01:17 PM | #489 |
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| Mar11-12, 06:22 PM | #490 |
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I don't know if Chu has given up on his cellulosic ethanol but I'm glad to hear Obama talking about algae. Chu was definitely driving things the other direction - towards ethanol - as that was his focus before becoming the Energy Secretary.
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| Mar11-12, 09:45 PM | #491 |
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| May31-12, 03:42 PM | #492 |
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Has research gone into coupling algae growth and fuel production with today's biggest human emitters of carbon dioxide - i.e. power stations? It seems to me that this could simultaneously solve three problems - the problem of what to do with the carbon dioxide emitted from these power centers, the problem of where to get free carbon for algae growth, and the problem of transporting the fuel required to generate electricity.
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| May31-12, 04:51 PM | #493 |
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Interesting analysis of biofuels in general by Dr Tom Murphy, essentially whilst they're good they don't get round the problem of needing vast amounts of space
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/...biofuel-grind/ Personally I'm more interested in the idea of artificial photosynthesis. If we could cut out the middle man and just make solar panels capable of taking in water and CO2 and secreting Oil and O2 and do it cheaply and efficiently our problems will be greatly mitigated. |
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