How Branes Came To Be?

~~sol2~~ · Aug6-04, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by pelastration

Thanks for the links.

Sure, Universal Scissors would create discrete pieces but they would loose history. If cut what would connect them gravitational?
Don't you think conservation of history (information) is essential?

Yes the 720° belt trick can be done with pelastrated holons. Lou Kauffmann showed the trick during the ANPA meeting. Fun. Lou looks into a special algebra for pelastrations.

If cut what would connect them gravitational? Don't you think conservation of history (information) is essential?

The information is always there in the bulk. You never lose it. It just gathers in spots, sometimes stronger then other locations, and we see where all these holes start to look like swiss cheese universe.

Might Lou looked at math of topos theory?

~~sol2~~ · Aug6-04, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by pelastration

Sol, I put them as webpages.
Here are the links (images contain some black dots):

First day: http://www.mu6.com/ANPA/pelastration1.htm

Second day: http://www.mu6.com/ANPA/2/pelastration2.htm. Here some pages are repeated + reactions added on questions during the first presentation. Some images (i.e. QM box eperiments) were explained verbally and not eplained on the slide. For the Alain Aspect experiment I had not the time to make an image.

You work very quickly and thank you for putting into html pages.

Your mention of Alain Aspect is a good sign to me that you are headed in the right direction. My little story will bring together a lot of what you are doing and seeing. Your framework will be complete as far as I see it, once you incorporate the final information.

From light to dark, and back again, and what begins and ends is very interrelated and contain seeds of each other. If you have a shadow and light and inbetween, a line, how shall we describe this line? For you, I know the image will materialize

Good work. Maybe, you can give the image a complete rotation?

**pelastration** · Aug6-04, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by sol2

If cut what would connect them gravitational? Don't you think conservation of history (information) is essential?
The information is always there in the bulk. You never lose it. It just gathers in spots, sometimes stronger then other locations, and we see where all these holes start to look like swiss cheese universe.

You mean ALL information? Holons contain ALL information of all previous combinations. Each particles has it's own history. I.e. each electron in the universe has a different layer-history than the other electrons, since it's origin is different. I don't believe such topological information of each particle is conserved in the traditional 'bulk'. And where would it be stored?

~~sol2~~ · Aug6-04, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by pelastration

You mean ALL information? Holons contain ALL information of all previous combinations. Each particles has it's own history. I.e. each electron in the universe has a different layer-history than the other electrons, since it's origin is different. I don't believe such topological information of each particle is conserved in the traditional 'bulk'. And where would it be stored?

Originally Posted by Dirk

Prior Geometry and Holons One membrane peak (active) penetrates a passive peak. Since the membrane is non-breakable a new double layered area is created.

We call this local zone a HOLON. A holon contains history of the parents.

Slide('7')Piror Geometry and Holons
http://www.mu6.com/ANPA/pelastration1.htm

Originally Posted by Dirk

Holons (Koestler) may be: galaxies, stars, planets, humans, animals, plants, cells, DNA, genes, molecules, atoms, nuclei, particles.

Slide 14

I needed to understand how you were seeing. There were other defintions you had?

It would indeed be hard to see from a path integral approach. From a LQG perspective, and discreteness, how would you separate the coverings from the parent........hmmmm. I have to think about how you are relating history to parents.

One thing that immediately strikes me is that you have given boundaries with shape and color. The penetration and covering of other possibilties, in terms of the growth potential of families is a psychological relationship you have mathmatically developed into a wonderful creation.

Let's look at Bohr's atom. If we use liminocentric structures like you have when you partition your penetrations, to circles then what has this told you about these penetrations? Help me here

One of the interesting things to me is that if we have a enornmous amount of energy, something must happen, if energy is released. Now how might we look at this? In two ways. One in which you see just energy pervading the universe, or another, in how you might percieve the graviton in that bulk?

You might see something "pinching off" and with that, correllations of graviton association? The "point" as a boson, would leave the 3 brane reveal itself, as a wavelength of spectrum. Still the parent is at the core? And the parent connected to pervading bulk by its history.

Does this make sense?

**pelastration** · Aug6-04, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by sol2

It would indeed be hard to see from a path integral approach. From a LQG perspective, and discreteness, how would you separate the coverings from the parent........hmmmm. I have to think about how you are relating history to parents.

The parents are the history. They are inside the child.
The slide 8 (First powerPoint: Holons and Duality) shows that. Two different parts of the membrane are joined in the holon B(A). Slide 11 shows the further holon C(ba). That contains the original B(a). That's layering history. Whatever more combinations are made by C(ba) in larger - more complex - towers, there will be always C(ba) involved. Call C(ba) an electron. So wherever that electron goes ... i.e. being part of a Cu-atom inside a molecule - it will contain the topological history of the membrane parts by which it was created. Another electron may be for example: D(ac), etc.

Let's look at Bohr's atom. If we use liminocentric structures like you have when you partition your penetrations, to circles then what has this told you about these penetrations? Help me here

Surely I want to help but I don't get the question. You mean the circles? These are a traverse cutting of the holon so you can see the layers from another side.
These local topological penetrations (creating holons like electrons ) will circle around the nucleus of an atom, not really different from Bohr's atom, only they are still attached (like by a belt) to the membrane. The 720° rule plays here.

One of the interesting things to me is that if we have a enornmous amount of energy, something must happen, if energy is released. Now how might we look at this? In two ways. One in which you see just energy pervading the universe, or another, in how you might percieve the graviton in that bulk?

.
Let's simplify and say that the membrane is spacetime (although the membrane is pre-geometry, timeless).
To me the spacetime membrane is the interconnective elasticity which is observed as "gravity".
Everything (holons) is restructured membrane. Everything, so what we call: energy and what we call: matter. It's just a different level of layering. We can say here that the curvature of spacetime creates matter: which confirms Einstein's idea that spacetime influences matter (indeed it creates matter). And when spacetime moves also matters moves with it (since it's on the spacetime brane).

In powerpoint 2 (slide: 14 ) you can see the dynamics: How membrane layers in a holon can be deformed.
The bold red lines are first levels of sub-holons (complex), the blue lines are the next level (more complex), and the purple line symbolize the three level (more, more complex). There can be much more levels.
The higher holon-towers become, the more the basic membrane 'feels' 'heaviness' = matter-like. That implies that there is more rigidity but also that the membrane 'bends' (like Einstein's rubber sheet). Matter curves spacetime.

We can see here that indeed everything is vibration, like Kaku and other string physicists say, but it's the fundamental membrane that vibrates (the fundamental hollow string). Combined vibrations create particles (various energy types and matter types).

You might see something "pinching off" and with that, correllations of graviton association? The "point" as a boson, would leave the 3 brane reveal itself, as a wavelength of spectrum. Still the parent is at the core? And the parent connected to pervading bulk by its history.

Pinching off is a nice human interpretation. ;-). But it's all on-the-brane. Nothing can leave the brane since everything is made by the brane and still part of the unbreakable membrane. Indeed holons will vibrate in a very specific way (depending of their internal structure), meaning: how the parent parts of the membrane are structured inside each holon.

~~sol2~~ · Aug7-04, 11:18 AM

I am giving you this post to direct your attention to the method, in which my attempts are to move forward concept building, and list the structure with how I am approaching this. People in this forum are unknowing partners in the continued developement. I appreciate the interaction and hope I am reciproicating what I am learning.

Now to me, if you present me with the Planck epoch, you have to understand what this means, and where "emergent realities" might come from.

In the last post I supply a thread, I deal specifically with what is called pearls and chains, because it reveals the cosmic string developement effects from planck epoch. So this leaves you with a taste in one's mouth of the era and the manifestation that arises to our current universe and realization.

So I traced the "history," back to Parent/Child, and here I am speaking to the effects produced by the cosmic strings, and the "cooling nature" in that universe, as a consistent feature.

You have to understand what the bulk means. It is "history" and represents the gravitons. This is a fourth dimensional(all of space) result of the 3 brane world. The history remains consistent throughout all the epochs and universe to now. The Fifth dimenison, is with time.

What we want to know then, is if the M really stands for membrane, or Mother ?

You see if you look at the planck epoch, and the idea of pure energy, how do bubbles form? There is a leading thought here in terms of the creation of the universe and it is all encapsulated in the bubble M theory.

Yet alongside of this developing universe(child) the mother still exists in this (graviton)Sea, from which it too was born. So no matter how weak the graviton is in our current universe, it is still connected to the mother's embryonic womb from which the children came.

It has to have a "basis" from which to develope, and conceptually, this would have to have a vibratory nature(quantum harmonic oscillator?), and the only thing that I know that can show this is "energy".

If there are no gravitational waves, the spacetime fabric is flat.

The KK tower then becomes specific for me about particle identification.

This is about the duality that emerged, and it's logic. Line of shadow or line of light. For me then your examples of became features of solidity and sound.

I developed the lines and they can be broken or unbroken, yang and Yin respectively.

I will stop here, as it leads into other things.

Your model would have to be consistent with the history?

How can "energy" be born out of the complete blackness? Is it as simple as going to sleep(darkness) and waking up on the other side?

Originally Posted by Pelastrian

But it's all on-the-brane. Nothing can leave the brane since everything is made by the brane and still part of the unbreakable membrane

Yes, one thing can leave the brane. The EM spectrum is the face of the brane which can't leave. Yet the face, has to exist by it's definition, by what is in the bulk.

~~sol2~~ · Aug7-04, 06:17 PM

Imagine for one moment that a bubble arises out of dirac's sea. This bubble is a summmation of brane worlds?

The Dirac sea is an interpretation of the negative energy states that comprises the vacuum In physics, a vacuum is the absence of matter (molecules, atoms...) in a volume of space. A partial vacuum is expressed in pressure units. The SI unit of pressure is pascal (Pa). It can also be expressed as a percentage of atmospheric pressure using the bar or barometer scale.

Degrees of vacuum
atmospheric pressure = 760 torr or 100 kPa
vacuum cleaner = around 300 torr or 40 kPa
mechanical vacuum pump = around 10 millitorr or 1.3 Pa
near earth outer space = around 10-6 torr or 130 μPa
pressure on the Moon = around 10-8 torr or 1.3 μPa
interstellar space = around 10-10 torr or 13 nPa

The Dirac sea of particles and antiparticles is part of the foundation of modern quantum theory.

Paul Adrien Maurice Dirac
Paul Adrien Maurice Dirac, (August 8 1902 - October 20 1984) was a physicist and a founder of the field of quantum physics.

BiographyDirac was born in Bristol, Gloucestershire, England. In 1926 he developed a version of quantum mechanics, which included “Matrix Mechanics” and “Wave Mechanics” as special cases.

In 1928, building on Pauli's work on nonrelativistic spin systems, he derived the Dirac equation, a relativistic equation describing the electron. This allowed Dirac to formulate the Dirac sea and predict the existence of the positron, the electron's anti-particle; the positron was subsequently observed by Anderson in 1932. Dirac explained the origin of quantum spin as a relativistic phenomenon.

The "sea" has an infinite background charge and may play a role in the perceptions of spacetime

In special relativity and general relativity, time and three-dimensional space are treated together as a single four-dimensional manifold called spacetime (alternatively, space-time). A point in spacetime may be referred to as an event. Each event has four coordinates (t, x, y, z); or, in angular coordinates, t, r, θ, and φ. structures.
Dirac studied the electron in complex spacetime

In special relativity and general relativity, time and three-dimensional space are treated together as a single four-dimensional manifold called spacetime (alternatively, space-time). A point in spacetime may be referred to as an event. Each event has four coordinates (t, x, y, z); or, in angular coordinates, t, r, θ, and φ.
, Dirac published the Dirac equation. With the Dirac formalism, electron description is a particle to the proton. After others (including Hermann Weyl, Robert Oppenheimer, and Igor Tamm) disproved this possibility, Dirac predicted a new particle, the positron. If negative energy is transformed into a positive energy state, the energy is perceived as a positron. Positron is the antiparticle of electron. Positrons are produced through pair production (bipolar coupling).

In relativistic quantum mechanics, Dirac's equation admits both positive and negative energy states. So, what is there to prevent a fermion from constantly radiating away energy, resulting in lesser and lesser energy, resulting in a huge instability? Dirac proposed almost all the negative energy states are filled by a sea of negative energy fermions. In modern treatments of quantum field theory, the Dirac sea is subtly introduced by having different definitions for the occupation number for positive and negative frequency decompositions.

The model of a negative energy "sea" of electrons has critics.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Dirac%20sea

This bubble encloses all possible dimensions? M stands for mother, and out of the waters of this world, the children(universes) are born?

I stumbled upon the words of Sakharov in relation to Dirac's Sea.

For some of us who had gather at a earlier time, the effective electron-positron questions all of a sudden presenrted other solutions as to how we could percieve dynamical movement.

On that point we can only conjecture. Sakharov suggested accounting for the effects of general relativity by introducing the concept of an "elasticity of space," analogous to the well-known curvature of space-time. The answer could also lie in the proper treatment of the so-called Dirac sea of particle-antiparticle pairs. The question of general relativistic effects, however, is a valid concern that legitimately challenges the interrelated ZPF concepts of gravity and inertia.

http://www.calphysics.org/haisch/sciences.html

Link was added from a post of Self Adjoint's here.

~~sol2~~ · Aug7-04, 06:41 PM

Beyond Einstein seems a catching phrase to me too.

Yet we find a lot of evidence of this thinking all over the place. What do the new ideas espouse? Have we really grasped the significance?

BEYOND E=mc2

A first glimpse of a postmodern physics, in which mass,
inertia and gravity arise from underlying electromagnetic processes

Even if our approach based on stochastic electrodynamics turns out to be flawed, the idea that the vacuum is involved in the creation of inertia is bound to stay. Perhaps even bolder than the concepts themselves are their implications. If inertia and gravity are like other manifestations of electromagnetic phenomena, it might someday be possible to manipulate them by advanced engineering techniques.

http://www.calphysics.org/haisch/sciences.html

Sometimes we might need visual aids. So, I thought I would add this in relation to the question, on how would we see these dimensions, if we accept the gravitons in the bulk?

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/featured...oap01small.jpg

Karl E. Deckart

~~sol2~~ · Aug7-04, 07:15 PM

Update on an Electromagnetic Basis for Inertia, Gravitation,
the Principle of Equivalence, Spin and Particle Mass Ratios

Both of the approaches above (together called the RHP approach for convenience) assume classical electrodynamics
operating in flat spacetime. Einstein’s field equations for general relativity (GR)
Gµ = 8Tµ (7) describe how curved spacetime geometry (Gµ ) is produced by the presence of matter or energy as described by the energy-momentum tensor (Tµ). Nickisch and Mollere have considered the possibility that electromagnetic fields, including that of the zero-point fluctuations, can be treated as a distortion in the spacetime of the charge. A massless charge would behave like a photon, following a null geodesic, but in a spacetime
defined by electromagnetic fields. A photon, in the absence of any energy or matter other than the zero-point fluctuations, will follow an unperturbed flat spacetime trajectory. However unlike the spacetime of a photon,
the spacetime of the massless charge is defined by the distortions of the zero-point fluctuations, producing a geodesic description of zitterbewegung. Additional electromagnetic fields may produce a non-zero-mean drift
of the zitterbewegung that is also accounted for in the geodesic motion. These non-zero-mean effects “accumulate” into a stretching of the particle’s spacetime, and this stretching is perceived by external observers
to be inertia.

http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/...09/0209016.pdf

~~Mike2~~ · Aug9-04, 08:25 AM

[quote=sol2]Update on an Electromagnetic Basis for Inertia, Gravitation,
the Principle of Equivalence, Spin and Particle Mass Ratios
If mass is due to this acceleration against thermal photons, then where does that leave the calculation of mass as vibrations in string theory?

selfAdjoint · Aug9-04, 09:33 AM

This is Haisch, Rueda, and Puthoff, a way-out team of physicists trying to get new physics from the ZPE. Not even Sarfatti takes them seriously.

~~sol2~~ · Aug9-04, 11:32 AM

[quote=Mike2]

Originally Posted by sol2

Update on an Electromagnetic Basis for Inertia, Gravitation,
the Principle of Equivalence, Spin and Particle Mass Ratios
If mass is due to this acceleration against thermal photons, then where does that leave the calculation of mass as vibrations in string theory?

For me just trying to grasp the significance of the brane theories is really quite a feat, but one thng is known within that theory, and that is the photon as a boson, is connected to the brane/branes.

If we change around the question in regard to glast, how photon interactions are showing us discrete features by the path integral approaches in regards to gamma ray detectors, how would you measure the photons interaction with the bulk/gravitons?

Do you accept the feature of the energy as telling you, by its' very existance that the history sits along side of the mass features, as signs of what had existed before. What indicators allow you to decide, what matters could become from those signature particles?

So even in the planck epoch, what signatures would tell the universe to become the way it is?

You know I have a lot of questions also and they help me to focus. Becuase you asked a question yourself, other factors, detail the responds. Not always direct I know. I am sorry, but I too am learning.

How has Science helped us to see?

Specifically elemental considerations on the moon cannot help us see what signatures can arise from the planck epoch? Yet things end up the way they do, and we have to ask ourselves? Why iron?

So we have detailled the beginning in the planck epoch to now. What in that history to now, is consistent?

If you accept the continuity and flow of time in regrads to 4 dimensional spacetime, we are lead to see in other ways, then the way the world allows us to see just the moon.

Acceptance of the unification of electromagnetism with gravity, how would you approach seeing?

The bubbles arise out of this sea and low and behold, everything we need is within that bubble. It encapsulates everything. So some like to extend this vision of bubble dynamics like Pelastrian does, and if we prodcue certain commentators in the links we supply, how would you, in accepting certain conditions, see what they are sayng, above and beyond Einstein, with these bubble technologies?

The Higher Sphere is choosen then not just for detailing casimere dynamics or bubble pressures outside influenced by boudaries, but the dynamcis of the geometry, is very telling then? You see?

Early universe detectors in gamma rays help us much closer to the temperature of that early universe, but is still a long ways from the essence of the planck epoch. So we have to look at it in other ways

Being more then the pure antagonist, we look for ways in which we can use that light switch in producing more neuron synapse connectors, like those pearl and chains, in the cosmic strings. Who knows, this might be God's brain we are seeing inthe cosmos?

The chemistry would be very musically inclined.

~~sol2~~ · Aug9-04, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by selfAdjoint

This is Haisch, Rueda, and Puthoff, a way-out team of physicists trying to get new physics from the ZPE. Not even Sarfatti takes them seriously.

Go with me here for a minute.

Thrown a blanket over all of them(Sarfartti included), and what the heck are they doing? The blanket( a part of the bubble) saids, there are different shapes evolving from what they propose.

You have to apply this to all thinking. It is a paradigmal/model grokked?

If you take everything out of space, what is left? The blanket saids something would it not, as you are doing this?

selfAdjoint · Aug9-04, 04:23 PM

Whenever I hear the phrase paradigm change, I reach for my textbooks.

~~sol2~~ · Aug9-04, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by selfAdjoint

Whenever I hear the phrase paradigm change, I reach for my textbooks.

As you should.

Strings, loop, and twistors all of are new paradigms, right? Or maybe my definition is different then yours?

Because you do no accept Kuhn, does not make the issue of paradigms go away. If you like, lets call them models. You accept models, and it changes the way you see? Is that better?

selfAdjoint · Aug9-04, 11:22 PM

From the Kuhn POV, strings, twistors, and even LQG are "normal science". Theory continuously connected to existing theory. The paradigm is quantization and both strings and LQG are within it. C[sup]* algebras on Hilbert spaces. Closure of the algebra. A paradigm shift would be at right angles to quantization. Many fakers and many cranks have claimed it, but not one has brought it off.