Where is the center of the universe?

Quantum-lept

Quantum-lept ," What if we were able to see or infer that the most distant objects were 30b light years or further? How would that effect your theory?"


Fredrik,"Why would that change anything?"


Other than change the age of the universe, i don't know.

What would falsify your theory?

Greylorn

Evo,
I reread your post and perused the link you provided. (I've never been a Ben Stein fan.) You are absolutely right.

Thank you for your reply. My question was inappropriate. Back to topic.

petm1

The shortest line back to big bang is centered in every atom. I am as close to the center of the universe "now" as any other form of matter, because the direction in time to big bang is the center connection we feel as mass. The longest lines in time to big bang are taken by photons. This is why I still feel that I am the center of my own visible universe while the Earth in the center of our one visible universe.

Fredrik

Then why did you bring it up?

Is that a serious question? I suppose you could ask those guys what they meant. If many of them answer e.g. that there's a brick wall at the end of the universe, I'll concede that I was wrong (about what they meant).

Quantum-lept

Fredrik, I did not know..that is why i asked the questions...you know the math, you know your theory, it's history, strengths and weakness, i don't.

I have to take it on faith, and i don't do faith well.

If Darwin and others point out what will falsify their theory, then i assumed that every theory has an argument or evidence that will falsify it. Has nothing to do with what others believe or think if they can support their theories and those theories are not falsified.

I thought that is what science is, postulating a theory and trying to falsify it.

I only have theories based on what i observe and understand. These can be easily falsified because observation without specific knowledge is prone to error.

So, if there are no questionable variables in your mathematical models which no one has taken issue with, then it is a sound working theory and obviously beyond my understanding. I can only try.

And the center of the universe is not me..(:

Fredrik

It is, but you must have lost track of what we were talking about very early in this exchange. I said that physicists who use the phrase "the edge of the universe" are probably talking about the most distant things we can see, and you questioned that with some very confusing comments. I see now that you at some point must have started talking about something completely different. I still don't know what.

Chronos

Ok, back to the original question, in case we lost track of that. We are at the temporal edge of the universe and the rest of it looks very smooth. Does that mean we reside at the center of the universe?

Quantum-lept

I'm questioning the mathematical models that come to conclusions that may at this time observably may be confirmed, but since there is still so much that we don't observe, require some faith to believe.

What if we observe that the universe goes back 100bly?
That would make the universe much, much older than we think it is now...If some mathematical model says it is 14bly, then observation or the model is in error.

There may not ever be a way to confirm if there is an edge to the universe other than a mathematical model, so that has to be tested and questioned and if a weakness is found, suspected as flawed beyond a certain point.

I just read that "singularities" are a problem...I have a problem with them too...The BB makes a ripping good yarn, gives people something to think about and have faith in, but singularities may be an invention because we can't see mathematically into the area that we are looking toward.

Another problem: Too many infinities...infinity this, infinity that...infinities piled into, onto, or otherwise associated with infinities...the universe may not be infinite. time may not be infinite..infinite mass, just a glitch in the math.

To say for certain that there is or is not an edge to a universe requires faith, or faith based science...for now, anyway.

petm1

Yes when you think of visible universe, but no because the center is relative to each of us through our own center connection in time and not through space. In some ways time appears to be the boundary condition for all waves to a point.


Good thing we can keep it to finite numbers because we are seeing motion relative to each of us in time not just space.

JediSouth

Yes, but WHERE IS THE STARTING POINT that everything starting moving away from

Chronos

Everywhere is the short answer. Since everything began at the initial 'singularity', every atom in the universe still thinks it is at the center.

EinsteinII

I need one more explanation. I think by this question our friend wants to know the location of Big Bang.. If that.. Do we have any clues as of now?

petm1

We see the atoms as separate pieces of this single event as for distance just think of redshift as a measure of time's dilation not just space's expansion after all relative they are one.

Radrook

Let's assume that our universe is one of the theoretical millions that are like soap bubbles in a vast endless sea. If so then it is finite. If finite that means it has a periphery. If it has a periphery then the distance from its peripheries inward until we achieve radius would give us its approximate center.

Multiverse Theory
http://www.makli.com/multiverse-theory-008210/

Chronos

We are at the temporal edge of the universe. No matter what direction we look, the rest of the universe appears more ancient [due to the finite speed of light]. Since it looks the same in every direction, it creates the illusion we are at the center. The same is true for any other observer in the universe. The concepts of 'center' or 'edge' of the universe are therefore irrelevant.

Radrook

But does perception relative to position make a center impossible? Isn't that like saying that perception makes reality? Also, how does irrelevancy make reality any different? Isn't that simply a dismissal of the presently unknowable? Neither does inability to comprehend change reality. It merely proves inability to comprehend. We may be fish in a vast sea which seemingly has no center but the sea might indeed have a center despite our inability to see or comprehend where it is. If we say that the universe was infinitely small and suddenly appeared and expanded, then we create paradoxes. That is a fact. But to say that every single point on that expanding universe was and still is at its center, or that it was and is impossible for it to have a center is to postulate the impossible. If indeed it is impossible for our universe to have a center even though it is acknowledged to be finite then the reason why it i impossible has to be proven. Despite my extensive reading on the subject I have as yet not encountered a convincing or even an attempted explanation proving this supposed impossibility.

Chronos

Do you agree every observer in the universe perceives they are as far away as possible from the 'center' of the 'big bang', 'now'? [given the finite speed of light]?