# Why is there starvation in human populations?

by m.e.t.a.
Tags: human, populations, starvation
P: 127
Note the title of this thread ..... it does not specify Africa. If I reference another geographic area I am trying to put it into a context, not change any subject. That you see a mention of global warming as a change or subject (did you see the 'but') says more about you than about the subject we are (or were until you got belligerent) discussing.

 Illicit outflows increased from $1.06 trillion in 2006 to approximately$1.26 trillion in 2008, with average annual illicit outflows from developing countries averaging $725 billion to$810 billion, per year, over the 2000-2008 time period measured. Illicit flows increased in current dollar terms by 18.0 percent per annum from $369.3 billion at the start of the decade to$1.26 trillion in 2008. When adjusted for inflation, the real growth of such outflows was 12.7 percent. Real growth of illicit flows by regions over the nine years is as follows: •Middle East and North Africa (MENA) 24.3 percent, •developing Europe 23.1 percent, •Africa 21.9 percent,•Asia 7.85, and •Western Hemisphere 5.18 percent.
http://iff-update.gfip.org/

and that is the illicit money .....

You can do your own research from here ....

P: 1,123
 Quote by croghan27 Note the title of this thread ..... it does not specify Africa. If I reference another geographic area I am trying to put it into a context, not change any subject. That you see a mention of global warming as a change or subject (did you see the 'but') says more about you than about the subject we are (or were until you got belligerent) discussing. http://iff-update.gfip.org/ and that is the illicit money ..... You can do your own research from here .... http://www.financialtaskforce.org/20...ionstrillions/

"Top 10 countries with the highest measured cumulative illicit financial outflows between 2000 and 2008 were:

China: $2.18 trillion Russia:$427 billion
Mexico: $416 billon Saudi Arabia:$302 billion
Malaysia: $291 billion United Arab Emirates:$276 billion
Kuwait: $242 billion Venezuela:$157 billion
Qatar: $138 billion Nigeria:$130 billion "

How does this support your claim?
P: 1,294
 Quote by croghan27 Here is an interesting concept I came upon just after finishing the last post - it is by Gwynne Dyer and about climate warming, but the food reference may be helpful in this discussion: http://www.embassymag.ca/dailyupdate...ity_04-13-2011
I have come across China's land problem before (I assume you are also referring to this). It sounds very similar to current oil problem. But, as far China has strong economy and military (which it does) it can get anything it wants.
PF Gold
P: 5,459
Here is also a cause mentioned for starvation in human populations

It's not new, but the publication platform is interesting.

Part of the abstract:

 Results derived fromWorld Bank and World Health Organization (WHO) studies suggest that for every million people living in absolute poverty in developing countries, there are annually at least 5,270 deaths and 183,000 Disability-Adjusted Life Years (DALYs) lost to disease. Combining these estimates with estimates of the increase in poverty owing to growth in biofuels production over 2004 levels leads to the conclusion that additional biofuel production may have resulted in at least 192,000 excess deaths and 6.7 million additional lost DALYs in 2010.
P: 8
 Quote by rootX They produce like there's no tommorow (joking) but I recall starting a thread why do poor people have children when they cannot support themselves.
One factor I'm sure that's a tiny bit involved is the fact that birth control products such as contraceptives and other services are not as available to people of the lower class demographic. I think whats more involved is that for some families the dynamic of parent child roles are difference as well. For example some farmers may have more kids even if they are poor because their children can contribute to the farm labor.

But even more so it's the fact that women in poverty are are not getting the education they need for better survival. Studies have shown once women are more educated birth rates start to go down.

some sources:
http://www.globalissues.org/article/...m-our-own-past

http://www.yorku.ca/povproj/document...ThemePaper.pdf
P: 1,294
 Quote by lcary One factor I'm sure that's a tiny bit involved is the fact that birth control products such as contraceptives and other services are not as available to people of the lower class demographic. I think whats more involved is that for some families the dynamic of parent child roles are difference as well. For example some farmers may have more kids even if they are poor because their children can contribute to the farm labor. But even more so it's the fact that women in poverty are are not getting the education they need for better survival. Studies have shown once women are more educated birth rates start to go down. some sources: http://www.globalissues.org/article/...m-our-own-past http://www.beadforlife.org/blog/2011...rol-education/ http://www.yorku.ca/povproj/document...ThemePaper.pdf
This is an amazing program!
 The majority of Ethiopia's population live in rural areas and when they are ill many do not seek medical advice, but a new government programme hopes to change this at a local level.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/9464344.stm
 PF Gold P: 516 One reason for unnecessary starvation is the human reluctance to adopt entomophagy - the eating of insects. Respectfully submitted, Steve
P: 15,319
 Quote by Dotini One reason for unnecessary starvation is the human reluctance to adopt entomophagy - the eating of insects. Respectfully submitted, Steve
You sure about that? My bet is that, despite it being distasteful in first world countries, they have no problem with it in 3rd world countries. No, I think the problem with that is that, while nutritious and edible, I doubt the biomass of insects could support the indigenous human population. It's not like there are fields of bugs like crops.
PF Gold
P: 516
 Quote by DaveC426913 You sure about that?
I'm not completely sure about anything I haven't seen or done for myself - so I stand condemned of terrible doubts. However, I did read this:

"According to Hölldobler and Wilson (1990), up to 1/3 (33%) of the
terrestrial animal biomass (NOTE: not including aquatic animal, or
terrestrial and aquatic flowering plants and microorganisms) was made
up of ants and termites."

"Ants are everywhere on earth. When combined, all ants in the world
weigh about as much as all humans (Hölldobler & Wilson 1994)...

Respectfully yours,
Steve
P: 15,319
 Quote by Dotini I'm not completely sure about anything I haven't seen or done for myself - so I stand condemned of terrible doubts. However, I did read this: "According to Hölldobler and Wilson (1990), up to 1/3 (33%) of the terrestrial animal biomass (NOTE: not including aquatic animal, or terrestrial and aquatic flowering plants and microorganisms) was made up of ants and termites." "Ants are everywhere on earth. When combined, all ants in the world weigh about as much as all humans (Hölldobler & Wilson 1994)... http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=536123 Respectfully yours, Steve
Yep. I'm aware of that. But imagine the logistical feat involved in extracting enough ants from an anthill to feed your family. I can't imagine how you'd do it at all, let alone practically.
Mentor
P: 2,990
 Quote by DaveC426913 Yep. I'm aware of that. But imagine the logistical feat involved in extracting enough ants from an anthill to feed your family. I can't imagine how you'd do it at all, let alone practically.
Perhaps if they were ever really considered as a food source, insects would be raised on an industrial scale, similar to the way cattle, pigs, and chickens are. It would be very inefficient if we had to go out an hunt those traditional food sources every day.
 PF Gold P: 516 Out in my neck of the woods, there is a vast forest of trees on the Olympic Peninsula, State of Washington. They all eventually rot and are consumed by termites, which may be easily scooped up by the handful. I second lisab's idea about purposefully raising and harvesting the tastier ones. Highest regards, Steve
P: 15,319
 Quote by lisab Perhaps if they were ever really considered as a food source, insects would be raised on an industrial scale, similar to the way cattle, pigs, and chickens are. It would be very inefficient if we had to go out an hunt those traditional food sources every day.
Certainly.

But I still refute the original claim that it is the distastefulness of eating insects that is a contributor to starvation.

Further, this idea doesn't really solve anything. Why would the local people be able to agrifarm bugs any better than any other food crop? They still need food, water, harvesting equipment etc.

The original idea of Dotini's might have been to take advantage of an existing unexploited food source, but we just refuted that and are back to the need to bring resources, technology, manpower and consumables into the picture.
Mentor
P: 5,473
 Quote by DaveC426913 Certainly. But I still refute the original claim that it is the distastefulness of eating insects that is a contributor to starvation. Further, this idea doesn't really solve anything. Why would the local people be able to agrifarm bugs any better than any other food crop? They still need food, water, harvesting equipment etc. The original idea of Dotini's might have been to take advantage of an existing unexploited food source, but we just refuted that and are back to the need to bring resources, technology, manpower and consumables into the picture.
This is exactly what I was thinking whilst reading these posts. I remember some years ago (way back in school) in a geography lesson watching a documentary about a tribe who ate local beetles. Weight for weight these beetles were 4x more nutritious than the local cattle. Even though that's all well and good the energy needed for the logistics of farming and supply these beetles would most likely outweigh any advantage.
 PF Gold P: 742 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-10766941 "In the Netherlands, insect rearing companies are already in business, typically they tend to breed large beetles, crickets and locusts." There seems to be some farming of insects, as well as other observations.
P: 15,319
 Quote by fuzzyfelt http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-10766941 "In the Netherlands, insect rearing companies are already in business, typically they tend to breed large beetles, crickets and locusts." There seems to be some farming of insects, as well as other observations.
Yes. But Netherlands is a loooong way from starving third world populations, in more ways than just distance. We have the same problem with logistics as ever.
Mentor
P: 5,473
 Quote by fuzzyfelt http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-10766941 "In the Netherlands, insect rearing companies are already in business, typically they tend to breed large beetles, crickets and locusts." There seems to be some farming of insects, as well as other observations.
Interesting stuff! Especially this bit;

"It's also possible, though not yet commercially viable, to extract the protein, and produce a kind of meat substitute, similar to the Quorn products we're already used to"

Perhaps in the future we'll be able to buy McBeetle Burgers. But echoing DaveC this isn't related to starvation. The technology and infrastructure necessary to farm insects is orders of magnitude greater than that needed for farming mammals/birds etc. Can you imagine trying to clip the wings of a billion locus, or trying to stop your ants tunneling away
P: 1,123
 Quote by DaveC426913 Yep. I'm aware of that. But imagine the logistical feat involved in extracting enough ants from an anthill to feed your family. I can't imagine how you'd do it at all, let alone practically.
Perhaps Politicians should start promising a Chocolate Fountain for every yard (to attract/coat/kill and render the ants appetizing)?

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