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Limits of Macroscopic Entanglement

by Varon
Tags: entanglement, limits, macroscopic
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Varon
#1
May18-11, 06:30 PM
P: 525
I thought quantum entanglement only occur in very isolated environment and laboratory setup. How come photosynthesis use it? Do you know of a web site that illustrates how this work in very clear manner? All those paper about the photosynthesis effect are difficult as they are mainly for biophysicists. Can you state the gist of why something as complex as photosynthesis can exhibit quantum entanglement.. like what created the isolation effect? What else in biology can pull this stunt?
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Varon
#2
May18-11, 10:13 PM
P: 525
Isn't the Electron Transport Chain in human biology similarly affected?

In Photosynthesis. Photons from the sun are taken by light-absorbing chromophores in chlorophyll before they charge up the electrons to higher energy levels in the Reaction Centers. The entanglement is between the chromophores and supposedly worked for photons only. But aren't the electrons after the Reacter Center similarly affected? In living cells, there is also a counterpart in the Electron Transport Chain where hydrogens are pumped in the inner space after the electrons jump from one site to another. But is
the electron movement a classical phenomenon like brownian motion or do it act like entangled photons? Are you sure with 100% certainty that it's just classical? Any proof where they actually see the electrons jump classically without pulling any entanglement stunts?

Anyway. How do the photons in the chromophores pull the entanglement trick? What would happen if they don't use entanglement? How many percentage less efficient?And what is all this equavalent in laboratory experimental setup?
Varon
#3
May18-11, 10:41 PM
P: 525
Something else bothers me a lot since getting the Scientific American June issue a few hours ago. I have never heard of the following and goggle doesn't return useful links. Is this true?

A neat experiment in 2003 proved that larger systems, too, can remain entangled when the leakage is reduced or somehow counteracted. Gabriel Aeppli of University College London and his colleagues took a piece of lithium fluoride salt and put it in an external magnetic field. You can think of the atoms in the salt as little spinning magnets that try to align themselves with the external field, a response known as magnetic susceptibility. Forces that the atoms exert on one another act as a kind of peer pressure to bring them into line more quickly. As the researchers varied the strength of the magnetic field, they measured how quickly the atoms became aligned. They found that the atoms responded much faster than the strength of their mutual interactions would suggest. Evidently some additional effect was helping the atoms to act in unison, and the researchers argued that entanglement was the culprit. If so, the 10^20 atoms of the salt formed a hugely entangled state.
Comment? Could this be just simple misunderstood phenomenon? Or is the whole salt really entangled?

Varon
#4
May19-11, 12:52 AM
P: 525
Limits of Macroscopic Entanglement

Quote Quote by Varon View Post
Isn't the Electron Transport Chain in human biology similarly affected?

In Photosynthesis. Photons from the sun are taken by light-absorbing chromophores in chlorophyll before they charge up the electrons to higher energy levels in the Reaction Centers. The entanglement is between the chromophores and supposedly worked for photons only. But aren't the electrons after the Reacter Center similarly affected? In living cells, there is also a counterpart in the Electron Transport Chain where hydrogens are pumped in the inner space after the electrons jump from one site to another. But is
the electron movement a classical phenomenon like brownian motion or do it act like entangled photons? Are you sure with 100% certainty that it's just classical? Any proof where they actually see the electrons jump classically without pulling any entanglement stunts?

Anyway. How do the photons in the chromophores pull the entanglement trick? What would happen if they don't use entanglement? How many percentage less efficient?And what is all this equavalent in laboratory experimental setup?
Here's the concern. If such lowly plants can pull photon entanglement trick in photosynthesis. Why can't living things? Remember de Broglie. Matter is like light. So electrons can be like photons. Hence. Maybe the brain can also pull the same entanglement stunt that photosynthesis can amidst noisy environment. Why not? Why impossible?
StevieTNZ
#5
May20-11, 10:23 PM
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Varon, I think you're turning into me, on Quantum Mechanics. Not a healthy state~
Varon
#6
May20-11, 11:02 PM
P: 525
Quote Quote by StevieTNZ View Post
Varon, I think you're turning into me, on Quantum Mechanics. Not a healthy state~
Why, what happened to you?
Varon
#7
May21-11, 02:50 AM
P: 525
Quote Quote by StevieTNZ View Post
Varon, I think you're turning into me, on Quantum Mechanics. Not a healthy state~
Say. Are you a quantum junkie? I wonder what is a definition of a quantum junkie.

Do you know the time and efforts a quantum junkie spend for years on the dozens of interpretations can instead make one expert on baking, cooking and other hobbies more worthwhile if he channels those energy.
Amalan
#8
May23-11, 11:43 AM
P: 7
Quote Quote by Varon View Post
Here's the concern. If such lowly plants can pull photon entanglement trick in photosynthesis. Why can't living things? Remember de Broglie. Matter is like light. So electrons can be like photons. Hence. Maybe the brain can also pull the same entanglement stunt that photosynthesis can amidst noisy environment. Why not? Why impossible?
I too have been having delusional visions of this idea. The idea that we can be "entangled" in a sense. Theres been numerous times where I would subconsciously look at my phone to see the time and a second later, id receive a text... weird correlation but I have thoughts about entanglements of consciousness. And the internet and how social networking sites like facebook essentially creates a global consciousness through continually creating neuron pathways via photos of whichever individual you want to observe.

heres an interesting paper that actually started me on this schizophrenia type mentality :p

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0706.0286

I think im going insane... I need to get my mind out of this quantum world mentality. Ignorance is bliss...

ill leave you with a quote from aristotle

"Friendship(or Love) is a single soul dwelling in two bodies."

edit: btw if anyone watches fringe, episode 6B delves into the idea of human entanglement
atyy
#9
Jun6-11, 08:08 AM
Sci Advisor
P: 8,555
http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/...RevE.83.051911
http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.2191

"What is important here is not to infer that, since the quantum result agrees with the classical, there is no quantum entanglement. Rather it is the classical amplitudes and phases which mimic this entanglement. ... One can conclude that the entanglement in the quantum case leads to no essential change from the coherence characteristics of classical electronic energy transfer."
Varon
#10
Jun6-11, 05:09 PM
P: 525
Quote Quote by Amalan View Post
I too have been having delusional visions of this idea. The idea that we can be "entangled" in a sense. Theres been numerous times where I would subconsciously look at my phone to see the time and a second later, id receive a text... weird correlation but I have thoughts about entanglements of consciousness. And the internet and how social networking sites like facebook essentially creates a global consciousness through continually creating neuron pathways via photos of whichever individual you want to observe.

heres an interesting paper that actually started me on this schizophrenia type mentality :p

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0706.0286

I think im going insane... I need to get my mind out of this quantum world mentality. Ignorance is bliss...

ill leave you with a quote from aristotle

"Friendship(or Love) is a single soul dwelling in two bodies."

edit: btw if anyone watches fringe, episode 6B delves into the idea of human entanglement
For me not figuring this out is insanity. Because I live in a world where non-locality is normal. I've been practicing voodoo for the past 20 years. This is the reason I'm interested in things physics and the quantum. Now I need to nail the right quantum interpretation so I can understand how it works. For normal physicists, they may not care what is the right interpretation because they all make the same prediction as QM. But in my case, I can distinguish what is the right interpretation (or even create additional ones) with additional data that I wielded.
StevieTNZ
#11
Jun6-11, 05:55 PM
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Quote Quote by Varon View Post
For me not figuring this out is insanity.
So I was somewhat right in saying you're entering/are in an unhealthy state worrying about all this?
Drakkith
#12
Jun6-11, 06:27 PM
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Quote Quote by Varon View Post
I thought quantum entanglement only occur in very isolated environment and laboratory setup. How come photosynthesis use it? Do you know of a web site that illustrates how this work in very clear manner? All those paper about the photosynthesis effect are difficult as they are mainly for biophysicists. Can you state the gist of why something as complex as photosynthesis can exhibit quantum entanglement.. like what created the isolation effect? What else in biology can pull this stunt?
Why would entanglement only occur in a laboratory? I don't know too terribly much about QM, but I thought that any interaction or production of particles which required them to be different quantum states resulted in entanglement. IE if you create two photons from something at the same time, they are always entangled, no matter where or how they were created.

In Photosynthesis. Photons from the sun are taken by light-absorbing chromophores in chlorophyll before they charge up the electrons to higher energy levels in the Reaction Centers. The entanglement is between the chromophores and supposedly worked for photons only. But aren't the electrons after the Reacter Center similarly affected?
I found this article here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0510151356.htm
But nothing else really that might explain any details on how entanglement is used. Pretty interesting.


Here's the concern. If such lowly plants can pull photon entanglement trick in photosynthesis. Why can't living things? Remember de Broglie. Matter is like light. So electrons can be like photons. Hence. Maybe the brain can also pull the same entanglement stunt that photosynthesis can amidst noisy environment. Why not? Why impossible?
Who says we can't or don't? Certain processes in cells in our body might make use of it. There are still plenty of unknowns.
Uglybb
#13
Jun7-11, 07:16 AM
P: 71
QM seems to be involved in all sorts of places at macroscale we just didn't know how to recognize it.

Even a vacuum isn't idle and still for QM which was long suspected but only recently shown
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-...om-almost.html

You may also wonder how many times can you entagle an item ... alot seems to be the answer
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-...s-photons.html
Thats 8 generations of entaglements .... the hole keeps getting deeper.

The best ever expalination I ever saw for us poor layman was by the "standup physicist" on his blog http://www.science20.com/standup_phy...cs_weird-79513 ... I sort of had to skip the maths it was a bit out of my league but the story was good.
Misericorde
#14
Jun7-11, 12:45 PM
P: 87
I don't think this applies to magic (I HOPE it doesn't...), but there is the apparent role of non-locality in the operation of photosynthesis, which is at least part of a very macroscopic system. As for Voodoun, I'm not sure that you're every going to rectify the practice of a religion with science, especially if you really believe you're a houngan or bokor.


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