Japan earthquake - contamination & consequences outside Fukushima NPP

Jim Lagerfeld

North winds and rain for the first time in quite a while in Tokyo, while we were all out enjoying the a break from the heatwave, environmental radiation clearly spiked during the short rain storm - from o.o65 to 0.01 uSv in Kawasaki, 0.058 to 0.093 in Saitama city. You can see it very clearly here: http://guregoro.sakura.ne.jp/radioactivity/kanagawa/ and a screen grab here data is taken from official prefectural monitoring stations.

tsutsuji

http://www.47news.jp/CN/201108/CN2011082001000306.html An experiment is made in a rice field at Iitate-Mura where growing rice is forbidden. They spread a fixation agent. After one week, they remove the crust with agricultural machinery. The chemical cost being ¥ 170 / m² , the problem is to lower the cost.

zapperzero

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/...dm013000c.html
Words cannot express my anger.

alpi

Would it be better to forcibly evacuate more people despite what is said here http://www.spiegel.de/international/...780810,00.html ? Don't think so.

zapperzero

Forcibly? Straw man argument.

Problem: as of today, anything beyond the 20km exclusion radius around Fukushima NPP is considered "normal". Therefore, people wishing to relocate cannot get any help from either gov't or TEPCO.

Problem: 0.2 Sieverts is way beyond the level at which you expect to start seeing definite health effects.

So yea, <text removed> I didn't think I could get any angrier.

nikkkom

Can you elaborate?

zapperzero

On the anger issue? I am afraid this is the wrong thread. I am angry because the town should have been evacuated, with full support from TEPCO and the Japanese gov't.

Astronuc

TEPCO and the government should support folks who would like to leave, as in voluntary evacuation, rather than live with exposure to the radioactivity/radiation that TEPCO caused.

Gary7

I would point out that some of the city of Namie is located within the 20 km evacuation zone, and some is within the wider "planned evacuation zone". The city government of Namie has encouraged people to relocate, and they are assisting people in this regard. There are temporary shelters set up in Fukushima city for use by residents of Namie, and there are a number of schemes from the city, prefecture, and national government set up to provide cash for the citizens of Namie. Information direct from the Namie city hall website http://www.town.namie.fukushima.jp/ .

Recently there are also movements to get cash settlements from Tepco.

Whether or not all the above is sufficient or fair or just, I shall leave it to others to hash out on the political thread.

zapperzero

The site says there were tsunami refugees living in a shelter in Namie, as late as this month.
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...cUM166dY0gtrJw
There is also talk there of building temporary housing. This does not sound like a planned evacuation!

Not a question of politics, but of public health and radiation safety.

rowmag

Yes, I had noticed this in another location which was also downwind of Fukushima Daiichi and raining heavily that day. Two questions, for anyone who knows:

1) Why did the levels drop again after the rain stopped? If it was Cesium being brought down, should it not have remained on the ground and raised the background level permanently afterwards (as happened in the March bursts in several places)? But it doesn't, it drops back to the previous level after the rain stops. Why the difference this time from the spikes in March?

2) What does this imply about the ongoing level of atmospheric emissions from the plant?

Gary7

I don't wish to engage in a polemic about what the country, prefecture, or city is doing (or isn't doing) to insure the health of its citizens. I was pointing out that parts of Namie are within the evacuation zone, and other parts are in the "planned evacuation zone" (whether or not the "planned" in either the translation or the original Japanese is appropriate or not I leave to the linguists). And I was also pointing out the existence of financial help at the national, prefectural, and city level. I would be extremely surprised if anyone in Namie city is finding life to be normal.

The Adatara Stadium in the article for which you provided the link, is part of the temporary shelters available to the residents of Namie. It is located in the city of Nihonmatsu, some 10 miles or so beyond the "planned evacuation zone". It is being returned to its original function as a stadium, and so Namie town is asking those sheltering in that stadium to relocate to other temporary shelters (which are located throughout Nihonmatsu and Fukushima city).

zapperzero

Yet, this is exactly what you are doing.

I, for one, am extremely surprised that there is still anyone in Namie city. Do you happen to know why this is so?

Oh. Fukushima city. That makes it all better... not.

Have you seen this?
http://www.town.namie.fukushima.jp/?p=6455

16 uSv/h in the air (h=1m) on school grounds? Please tell me no-one is actually going to school there! It comes out to 20-something mSv/year, even assuming 8hr days, six months vacations and no other exposure!

nikkkom

You know, I am very critical of nuclear industry and government. However, I also try to be reasonable in what I demand/expect from them. You are not.

Where do you want people to be relocated? South pole?
Namie is right in the center of the north-westerly radioactive fallout strip. Fukushima city is four times farther from F1 and has contamination levels about 20 times lower than Namie. I don't see what's wrong in relocating people from Namie to Fukushima city.

I think schools don't work in August.

2 roentgen/year, yeah. Everybody will die DIE DIE DIE! I mean, can you calm down please for a second?

Even discounting the effects of further decrease of these levels due to decay, natural washout and decontamination, this level of *external* exposure is not notably dangerous. For the comparison, people in Pripyat got upwards of 30 roentgens *in one day*. Now _that_ was a serious exposure.

The bigger problem is internal exposure (children will drink local water and inhale dust and get Cs and Sr in their body and bones). Japan government needs to start decontamination programme (in fact, I expected it to be in full swing by now) to make cities and roads safer. I am puzzled that this does not seem to be happening. If I would be a Japanese, I'd be angry at _that_.

Gary7

As I said, I am not interested in a polemical discussion. However, if my pointing out factual errors is considered polemical, I am ready to stand unrepentantly guilty.

I have no idea whether or not people are still living in Namie, but since part of it is in the mandatory evacuation zone, and since the city has encouraged residents to leave, I would be surprised if there were many still living there. Regarding the schools, according to the Namie city website, the students have been relocated to schools outside of the evacuation zone.

zapperzero

Ad hominem.

Oh, anywhere East of a line running N-S 30 km East of Fukushima NPP should do, for now. Not on the coast, though.

There are hotspots in Fukushima city too. They have not been mapped properly, let alone decontaminated. It is not a good place to be, especially for people who have already gotten a significant dose.

Yes. They stopped in July and will resume in September.

These guys http://www.wellesley.edu/ScienceCent...y/maximum.html say 0.5 R should be maximum exposure per year for a member of the general public. What makes you believe otherwise?

No? Again, citation please, as they say on Wikipedia. Also, please remember that this is only the dose from going to school we're talking about. I doubt the rest of the city is much cleaner.

And they were evacuated. What is your point?

Yes. There is that. In fact, 16 uSv/h at 1 meter from the ground, so long after the accident and with infinitesimal current release rates, pretty much spells "cesium in the ground, and lots of it".

I am more than puzzled. I am angry. I am also not Japanese, so I must seem strange to you, I realize.

Bodge

High concentrations of radioactive isotopes of Neptunium, Lanthanum, Yttrium, Barium, Strontium, Cobalt, Silver and Zirconium found 35km from Fuk-1.

In 'plant species' upto 500 beq/kg of Neptunium-239 was found.

Were there is Neptunium there has to be Plutonium and Uranium too.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/08/n...tected-in.html