The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific one

nikkkom

Way too high numbers.

All areas with more than one Curie per km^2 (which is 37 kBq/m^2) are inside Ukraine, Belorus and Russia. See, for example, this map:

http://astroarts.punt.nl/upload/Kern...e_zones_78.jpg

I have a much bigger map with data for December 1989 and it shows about the same: some isolated 1 Curie spots almost reached Latvia and Moldova, but I highly doubt Austria had anything close to that. Maybe in the very first days, with short-lived stuff like Iodine...


EDIT: Looks like I'm wrong. Austria indeed has a "honor" to have a patch of ~40-100 kBq/m^2. See here:

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/radi...from-chernobyl

Jim Lagerfeld

A better map of Austria:
http://www.progettohumus.it/include/...pa/PLATE10.PDF

And detailed maps for the rest of Europe if you are interested:
http://www.progettohumus.it/chernobyl.php?name=mappe2

Not sure the best way to go about making comparisons with the Japanese maps as the European ones only ever seem to show CS-137, and I also saw it said somewhere that the ratio of CS134 to 137 was quite different between the two accidents?

Borek

Image doesn't show.

nikkkom

Very roughly, initially the dose from both isotopes is about the same. Cs-134 has lower fission yield, but is more active than Cs-137.

By now, Chernobyl's Cs-134 is gone - almost all has decayed.

Jim Lagerfeld

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I mean that I have read that the initial ratio differed between the two accidents. 0.5 or 0.6 to 1 Cs-134:Cs-137 in Chernobyl, closer to 1:1 in Fukushima.

This paper gives the 0.6 :1 value: http://www.irpa.net/irpa7/cdrom/VOL.3/S3_146.PDF

But the Tokyo figures are much closer to 1:1 in the immediate aftermath
http://monitoring.tokyo-eiken.go.jp/...past_data.html

tsutsuji

http://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/noda...6kaiken_e.html The English translation of Prime minister Noda's 16 December "cold shutdown" press conference is now available.

Yamanote

Thanks for the information, especially to Jim!

It would be interesting to compare this with a current contamination map of Japan, but I seem to be too stupid to find one...

Sorai

The ones that have been translated are here:

http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/m...ne_monitoring/

And then there is this one, but it's in Japanese:

http://ramap.jaea.go.jp/map/map.html

Yamanote

Thanks again, great forum!

Although I am checking the MEXT page regularly, I missed this part completely.

clancy688

Map for Cs-137 deposition in Germany. The fallout in southern Germany is not so different to the Fukushima fallout southeast of Fukushima prefecture (is that Gunma and Tochigi prefecture?).

http://www.environmental-studies.de/rad_1.1.jpg

(Btw: Wouldn't this particular discussion fit better in the "contamination and consequences" thread?)

Yamanote

I agree. Comparing the discussions about Fukushima in different countries turned into a comparison about contamination somehow. Sorry for that.

PS: South of Fukushima prefecture are Ibaraki, Tochigi and Gunma (Ibaraki is at the coast, Gunma is in the center and Tochigi is between them).

zapperzero

Dunno what thread this should go into. Perhaps "contamination and consequences"? Maybe "performance"?

Anyway. TEPCO is threatened with a suit for damages by its own shareholders. In response, it has issued a document stating that board members do not hold any responsibility for the disaster and its aftermath:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tep...ima-2012-01-16

disgusting, but expected.

Yamanote

I fully agree with you. But I don't consider this as a typical Japanese or Tepco issue, it's more an issue of human beings in general and would happen in a very similar way everywhere in the world. Unfortunately...

Caniche

"human beings in general"More like " oops there goes my performance related bonus" Unless I can shift this ****

tsutsuji

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-..._gijiroku.html Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said that he is studying how the conference minutes of the accident response headquarters (whose chairman is the Prime Minister) can be reconstituted, as they are a requirement of the National Archive Law.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/...dm066000c.html "residents within a radius of 170 kilometers or more of the plant would be forced to move out, while those within a radius of 250 km of the plant, including Tokyo, would be allowed to leave if they wish" : government worst case scenario dated March 25, 2011.

Caniche

Worth a second look and more

zapperzero

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/...dm144000c.html
How very convenient.