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Mitt Romney's candidacy

by ThomasT
Tags: candidacy, mitt, romney
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Jasongreat
#487
Feb16-12, 02:07 AM
P: 75
Quote Quote by Office_Shredder View Post
This was more convincing before I realized that you just copy/pasted this from another website. I tried finding some of these cases to confirm what they say but I just get tons of websites citing the exact same quotes with no additional information. Do you know where the original opinions/rulings can be found?
Go to Cornell law(one place, or just go to the USC website), enter the citations listed, and then read the court cases. Sometimes it takes more than google to find facts, even today. :)

Edit: I tried a few to make sure and even just relying on google, if you enter the citation you get the court cases. But findlaw, cornell law, and USC sites are the best choices, IMO.
Jasongreat
#488
Feb16-12, 02:41 AM
P: 75
Quote Quote by AlephZero View Post
I just read the fist paragraph of your quote, and I the main thing that struck me (assuming that US and UK motoring law are vaguely similar) is that it may well be correct, but irrelevant.

In the UK there is no legal restriction on anybody of any age driving any vehicle almost anywhere they want. The restrictions are about driving vehicles on public highways.

"Public highways" are legally defined very precisely in the UK. Indeed there have been court cases where a local highways department redesigned a road junction by adding a one-way slip road, somebody was been prosecuted for driving the wrong way down it. and they were acquitted because the council had forgotten to go through the correct legal process to register the new bit of tarmac as a public highway. Of course those loopholes get fixed rather fast, once they have been discovered!

If the UK is anything like the US, just because the government says it should be and teaches that in public schools, doesnt make it so, but I do realize our constutuion is more set in stone(or atleast it was) than the UK version. Wasnt that one of the reasons our founders split? They felt like their rights, as englishmen under common law, were being abused. I have no problem with the laws in the UK, because I dont live under them, it is up to you to and your fellow countrymen to decide. If you like the laws in your country, please dont take my assertions as a negative, that is your government not mine.

But anyway, I feel like this discussion fits better in Ron Pauls thread, Romney I dont think has any idea of the true history of the US, he was an ivy league graduate afterall. IMO, they all seem pretty progressive, see Bill O'reilly, the Bushes, Obama just to mention recent history. The only reason I went down this path is RussWaters brought up driving restrictions to make his point, a point I disagree with emphaticaly if you havent noticed. :)

Romney, could if he wanted, make the government more efficient, he does like to destroy inefficient companies. But to think he would rule as a consevative, in the classical liberal view is preposterous, he was taught all the wrong beliefs of the US, not saying he couldnt change, I just dont think he has, yet. All the others, save paul, are far more big government though, so my choice is Romney/Paul or Paul/Romney I prefer the latter for eight years, then a newly educated Romney/whoever for the next eight. At least thats my opinion.
CAC1001
#489
Feb16-12, 03:20 AM
P: 18
Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
It is commonly believed due to constant hammering of the issue from liberal politicians, but it is very wrong. The data can be found here: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...cal/household/

The most relevant table is the mean household income of each fifth of the population. Even without adjusting for cyclic trends, the average income of the people in the bottom 20% is 21% higher (inflation adjusted) today than in 1967 when the data started to be collected. For the next two fifths the increases are 13% and 22%.
Most such data are meaningless anyway as we are talking about income quintiles, not fixed classes of people. Abstract statistical measures such as "the mean household income" for this or that "fifth" of the population tells us nothing about the actual human beings in our society over time, who move into and out of these quintiles.
WhoWee
#490
Feb16-12, 08:14 AM
P: 1,123
As Romney continues to battle for the GOP nomination - the reluctance of the Right to embrace him should be a good sign and helping him with Moderates and Independents - shouldn't it?
Office_Shredder
#491
Feb16-12, 01:07 PM
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Quote Quote by Jasongreat
Go to Cornell law(one place, or just go to the USC website), enter the citations listed, and then read the court cases. Sometimes it takes more than google to find facts, even today. :)

Edit: I tried a few to make sure and even just relying on google, if you enter the citation you get the court cases. But findlaw, cornell law, and USC sites are the best choices, IMO.
When I try to google them I just get the same schpiel posted on about 2000 other websites as my top hits.

Cases #3 and #4 that are cited are cases about the Secretary of State denying passports to citizens of the United States when Congress required anybody leaving the country to have a passport, and the ruling simply states that the government cannot restrict the right to travel to foreign countries with impunity. It has nothing to do with whether driving on a road explicitly is a right or a privilege

On the other hand we have court cases like
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=2,23&as_vis=1

a supreme court ruling about someone whose drivers license was suspended, so very directly related to the question of whether drivers licensing can legally restrict a right to drive on roads

The use of the public highways by motor vehicles, with its consequent dangers, renders the reasonableness and necessity of regulation apparent. The universal practice is to register ownership of automobiles and to license their drivers. Any appropriate means adopted by the states to insure competence and care on the part of its licensees and to protect others using the highway is consonant with due process.
This ruling came 10 years after Thompson v. Smith, which the quote from is missing a key component (coming immediately after the quoted section in your post) (parts bolded by me)

. It includes the right in so doing to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under the existing modes of travel includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. It is not a mere privilege, like the privilege of moving a house in the street, operating a business stand in the street, or transporting persons or property for hire along the street, which a city may permit or prohibit at will.

The exercise of such a common right the city may, under its police power, regulate in the interest of the public safety and welfare; but it may not arbitrarily or unreasonably prohibit or restrict it, nor may it permit one to exercise it and refuse to permit another of like qualifications, 378*378 under like conditions and circumstances, to exercise it. Taylor Smith, 140 Va. 217, 124 S.E. 259; Ex parte Dickey, 76 W.Va. 576, 85 S.E. 781, L.R.A. 1915-F, 840; Hadfield Lundin, 98 Wash. 657, 168 Pac. 516, L.R.A. 1918-B, 909, Ann. Cas. 1918-C, 942.

[7, 8]The regulation of the exercise of the right to drive a private automobile on the streets of the city may be accomplished in part by the city by granting, refusing, and revoking, under rules of general application, permits to drive an automobile on its streets; but such permits may not be arbitrarily refused or revoked, or permitted to be held by some and refused to other of like qualifications, under like circumstances and conditions.
In short, that drivers licenses are OK.

I was unable to find the Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago case, but was able to find this debunking of the citation
http://www.andrewtobias.com/bkoldcolumns/980723.html
lisab
#492
Feb16-12, 06:58 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
As Romney continues to battle for the GOP nomination - the reluctance of the Right to embrace him should be a good sign and helping him with Moderates and Independents - shouldn't it?
It seems you're thinking as a Republican by assuming Independents only have two choices - Romney or Santorum. But Independents are, well, independent.



http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...mney-chart.php
WhoWee
#493
Feb16-12, 07:14 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
It seems you're thinking as a Republican by assuming Independents only have two choices - Romney or Santorum. But Independents are, well, independent.



http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...mney-chart.php
What makes you think I'm a Republican?
lisab
#494
Feb16-12, 07:22 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
What makes you think I'm a Republican?
Because I caught you thinking like a Republican!
Evo
#495
Feb16-12, 07:37 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Because I caught you thinking like a Republican!
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

It doesn't matter what it calls itself, does it?

I'm not a Republican, I just believe in everything hardcore Republicans believe in.
BobG
#496
Feb16-12, 07:40 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
As Romney continues to battle for the GOP nomination - the reluctance of the Right to embrace him should be a good sign and helping him with Moderates and Independents - shouldn't it?
Depends on why they're reluctant to embrace him.

Not only are people influenced by a candidate's stand on the issues; they're influenced by their impression of his character/personality.

It's entirely possible that the impression of many conservatives is identical to that of liberals when it comes to Romney's personality/character.

While I find him acceptable politically (or at least his record is acceptable), I just have a hard time imagining myself voting for him. It's not his views I don't like - it's just him. It doesn't mean that there's no way I would vote for him - just that I sure would think about that long and hard before doing so.

Actually, I felt the same way about Bush 43 in 2000. I eventually swallowed hard and voted for Bush in spite of how I felt about him as a person (spoiled rich kid that wasted half his life partying). In retrospect, I can hardly believe I actually did that.
lisab
#497
Feb16-12, 07:49 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

It doesn't matter what it calls itself, does it?

I'm not a Republican, I just believe in everything hardcore Republicans believe in.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new...ate-rep,27371/
Evo
#498
Feb16-12, 07:56 PM
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<spew>
WhoWee
#499
Feb16-12, 08:00 PM
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Actually, I'm an unrepresented angry independent conservative - business owner - struggling to stay afloat in a time of great political and economic uncertainty.

IMO - in 2008 I thought Senator Obama was too inexperienced and too Lib - he has proven himself to be the inept executive/full time campaigner and disaster I feared. On the other hand, I think mitt Romney has the correct mix of experience to deal with the problems President Obama has either created or kicked down the road.
Evo
#500
Feb16-12, 08:13 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
On the other hand, I think mitt Romney has the correct mix of experience to deal with the problems President Obama has either created or kicked down the road.
And I feel the opposite.
phoenix:\\
#501
Feb16-12, 09:26 PM
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Feelings should play a minor role.

he has proven himself to be the inept executive/full time campaigner and disaster I feared.
Your experience does not prove those factors, it only proves your position in life. There is a difference between something being "proven" based on evidence of x contributing to y's failure and how such a policy didn't work, and proven, as in your case of the unfortunate mishaps we all have in life. Blaming Obama and hoping Mitt Romney will change your life around, one whom you believe to be the same as Obama (I think it was you who said it), is really too much of a contradiction of belief and your proof of Obama's ineptitude. Grass is greener on the other side but both sides have the same color and same green tint of grass?

P.S. If you didn't say it, my apologies.

In the event that you did not say it. Your belief in Romney being able to help your business is a bit much of a stretch isn't it? Aside from Romney's many pitfalls in potential policies and his unwavering stance that the small business owner doesn't matter much, he really doesn't say much to help dying businesses, correct?

Here is a clip:



I don't think he'd be able to help your business, it'd be much of the same. You can only help your business.
WhoWee
#502
Feb16-12, 09:35 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
And I feel the opposite.
Which part?
Evo
#503
Feb16-12, 09:41 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Which part?
That Romney is capable of doing any better than Obama. Obama did more positive things in his first few months than some Presidents did their entire term, IMO.
WhoWee
#504
Feb16-12, 10:13 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
That Romney is capable of doing any better than Obama. Obama did more positive things in his first few months than some Presidents did their entire term, IMO.
I think Romney's experience as a deal maker in the business world, as Gov as well as with the Olympics will help him to work with a disfunctional Congress.


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