Things People Learn Wrong in School?


by Bboy Physics
Tags: learn, people, school, things
CWatters
CWatters is offline
#55
Jan7-13, 03:47 PM
P: 2,861
Quote Quote by sophiecentaur View Post
I'm saying that we'd need some details of this 'special' Applied Maths treatment before we could be confident about its existence. Any other treatment of friction would have to be a bit above School / College level, I think. (I'm only implying the need for evidence.)
As the person who made the original comment I wish I was able to provide that evidence but I can't. All I can remember is that one of the examining boards used was the Associated Examining Board - but can't remember if the same board was used for both Physics and Maths. I can remember the conflict was discovered in the maths class rather than the physics class.

I'm not quite willing to put it down to a false memory but who knows. It would be nice to see an old worked paper or two.
BobG
BobG is offline
#56
Jan7-13, 05:23 PM
Sci Advisor
HW Helper
BobG's Avatar
P: 2,275
Without knowing the details, it would be impossible to know what the actual difference in approaches was.

However, if you're talking about tires.....

Deflating your tires increases your surface area and increases the coefficient of friction. The actual coefficient of friction is different for soft tires than for stiff tires, but I could see the increase in surface area providing a redneck estimate of the increase in the coefficient of friction, since it would be pretty difficult for the average person to determine what the new coefficient of friction was (especially since most people don't know the coefficient of friction of their tires when they're properly inflated).

They may be using the wrong parameter, but they're using a parameter that tends to change at least in the same direction as the parameter they really need, but have no way of knowing.

Or you have the people that realize that increasing the surface area will not increase your coefficient of friction, and so draw the even more wrong conclusion that deflating your tires cannot increase your coefficient of friction. Those will be the guys sitting in their Jeeps, stuck in the sand, waiting for a tow.
sophiecentaur
sophiecentaur is online now
#57
Jan8-13, 05:16 AM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
sophiecentaur's Avatar
P: 11,352
Yes - if it were as simple as that, racing cars wouldn't be swapping their tyres every half hour as conditions change.
Studiot
Studiot is offline
#58
Jan8-13, 06:49 AM
P: 5,462
Friction is not the only tangentiial force acting in the interaction between the road surface and a rolling pneumatic tyre.

If you want a fir comparison with the theory of sliding friction (blocks) you should lock the wheels and tow the truck.
sophiecentaur
sophiecentaur is online now
#59
Jan8-13, 07:00 AM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
sophiecentaur's Avatar
P: 11,352
Quote Quote by Studiot View Post
Friction is not the only tangentiial force acting in the interaction between the road surface and a rolling pneumatic tyre.

If you want a fir comparison with the theory of sliding friction (blocks) you should lock the wheels and tow the truck.
I think that the force would nave to be described as 'friction'. If not then you'd have to think of another name and 'friction' is a pretty catch-all term which assumes a flat surface. When would a grooved road surface become 'rails, for instance?. There again, a rubber tyre does not have linear characteristics (hysteresis and adhesion, for a start) so it wouldn't be expected to behave in an ideal way. Also, when cornering, there is slippage (work done) and the forces aren't the same as if the car were actually on rails with no slip at all.
PeteyCoco
PeteyCoco is offline
#60
Jan9-13, 06:20 PM
P: 29
The Octet Rule! I would have had a much better time in school and intro chem if I understood that it was mainly to C N O and F. I'm sure my teachers mentioned it at some point, but I never listened in highschool. Sometimes I feel like I wasn't old enough to appreciate what was being taught in highschool!
Bboy Physics
Bboy Physics is offline
#61
Jan12-13, 10:55 AM
P: 9
Quote Quote by PeteyCoco View Post
The Octet Rule! I would have had a much better time in school and intro chem if I understood that it was mainly to C N O and F. I'm sure my teachers mentioned it at some point, but I never listened in highschool. Sometimes I feel like I wasn't old enough to appreciate what was being taught in highschool!
That's how I see a lot of people as.. but you gotta remember there are people out there who really want to learn!
fluidistic
fluidistic is offline
#62
Jan12-13, 06:02 PM
PF Gold
fluidistic's Avatar
P: 3,173
In elementary school (when I was 8) I was taught that the surface tension of water was due to gravity: Our teacher put the end of a pencil into water and removed it very slowly until it was over the surface but the water was still sticky on it. She said that it's the same force that the Moon exerts on Earth and create tides. The worst thing is that I believed her.

I don't think someone had a similar experience but if you do, please post. :)
epenguin
epenguin is offline
#63
Jan12-13, 06:06 PM
HW Helper
epenguin's Avatar
P: 1,932
Quote Quote by 0xDEADBEEF View Post
same for singers breaking wine glasses (at least it doesn't work for non defective glasses)
I think that one was more often seen a century or more ago when the average glass was a lot less perfect and had stresses in it.

I only saw it once, sitting at a restaurant table this thick glass suddenly exploded and all that was left was a fine glass powder (except for the stalk I think).
0xDEADBEEF
0xDEADBEEF is offline
#64
Jan12-13, 06:55 PM
P: 824
Quote Quote by epenguin View Post
I think that one was more often seen a century or more ago when the average glass was a lot less perfect and had stresses in it.

I only saw it once, sitting at a restaurant table this thick glass suddenly exploded and all that was left was a fine glass powder (except for the stalk I think).
Oh yes glass can do that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-GOwtikSO0
epenguin
epenguin is offline
#65
Jan12-13, 07:03 PM
HW Helper
epenguin's Avatar
P: 1,932
I saw in an elementary physics book which was the book set for some students I briefly taught, about hydrostatic pressure, that deep sea fish had large mouths so as to equalise pressure outside and inside them and not be crushed.
tahayassen
tahayassen is offline
#66
Jan12-13, 07:52 PM
P: 273
Quote Quote by PeteyCoco View Post
The Octet Rule! I would have had a much better time in school and intro chem if I understood that it was mainly to C N O and F. I'm sure my teachers mentioned it at some point, but I never listened in highschool. Sometimes I feel like I wasn't old enough to appreciate what was being taught in highschool!
Can you please elaborate?
Bipolarity
Bipolarity is offline
#67
Jan13-13, 03:26 AM
P: 783
In about year 7, first year of secondary school in the United Kingdom, most of my friends, my history, drama and English teachers had all tried, rather painstakingly, to convince me that 0/0 is 0. I knew this was false, but I didn't really understand why. Most of the world population would agree with them sadly. I did not have the chance to ask my math teacher. Then again, this was year 7. I now know that 0/0 is much more complicated than that...

BiP
sophiecentaur
sophiecentaur is online now
#68
Jan13-13, 12:25 PM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
sophiecentaur's Avatar
P: 11,352
Quote Quote by fluidistic View Post
In elementary school (when I was 8) I was taught that the surface tension of water was due to gravity: Our teacher put the end of a pencil into water and removed it very slowly until it was over the surface but the water was still sticky on it. She said that it's the same force that the Moon exerts on Earth and create tides. The worst thing is that I believed her.

I don't think someone had a similar experience but if you do, please post. :)
I have read the equivalent level of nonsense on some posts on PF in the past. When challenged, the posters have managed to get very stroppy, too!.
sophiecentaur
sophiecentaur is online now
#69
Jan13-13, 12:28 PM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
sophiecentaur's Avatar
P: 11,352
Dang me if the very next post I read (not on this thread) wasn't the finest of example of that. Teachers don't have a monopoly.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
scheduling two different things to learn Academic Guidance 5
Why do people believe such things? General Discussion 19
!!Things It Takes Most Of Us 50 years to learn!! General Discussion 78
The things people do General Discussion 36
Things we learn from movies General Discussion 53