Need help on easy surface integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of a surface integral over a surface defined by the x-y plane and the equation z=4-(x^2+y^2). Participants explore parameterization methods and integration techniques, including the use of the divergence theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in parameterizing the surface and computing the integral, noting that the integrand becomes zero for the flat part of the surface.
  • Another participant suggests that the surface is a sphere, prompting a correction that it is actually a paraboloid.
  • There is a discussion about the correct order of differentiation in the surface integral computation, with one participant indicating that reversing the order may affect the sign of the result.
  • A participant mentions that they arrived at an incorrect result (-8π) and speculates that it may be due to their choice of parameterization.
  • One participant indicates they figured out the problem independently and expresses frustration with the forum's help process.
  • Another participant comments on the nature of the forum's assistance, suggesting that the approach is to encourage problem-solving rather than providing direct answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to the integral, and multiple viewpoints regarding parameterization and integration techniques are presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific steps to achieve the correct answer.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the correct parameterization and integration methods, and there are unresolved issues regarding the signs and values obtained in the calculations.

KillaMarcilla
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Yo guys, I'm stumped on how to parameterize this surface and then compute an integral over it

I'm supposed to compute [tex]\int\int_S \vec{r}[/tex] over the surface formed by the x-y plane and [tex]z=4-(x^2+y^2)[/tex], but I don't know to put it together and do it

(No matter how you work with x and y, z will always be zero for the flat part, and whether you use the normal or that [tex]\bigl(\frac{\delta S}{\delta u}\times\frac{\delta S}{\delta v}\bigr)[/tex], the integrand will end up being zero for the bottom)

For the curved part, I tried using [tex]S: \cases{ x=r \cos(\theta), y=r \sin(\theta), z=4-r^2}[/tex], which gave me [tex]\bigl(\frac{\delta S}{\delta \theta}\times\frac{\delta S}{\delta r}\bigr) = 2 r \sin\theta\vec{i} - 2 r \cos\theta\vec{j} - r\vec{k}[/tex], and then I computed [tex]\int_{\theta=0}^{2\pi}\int_{r=0}^{2}\vec{r}(r\cos\theta,r\sin\theta,4-r^2)\cdot\bigl(2 r \sin\theta\vec{i} - 2 r \cos\theta\vec{j} - r\vec{k}\bigr)[/tex]

But I came up with [tex]-8\pi[/tex] rather than [tex]24\pi[/tex].. I think the negative can come from how I arbitrarily decided to look at d theta cross dr instead of the other way around, sso I was looking at the flux in instead of the flux out, but I don't know how to explain the fact that I ended up with 4 - 8 integrated from zero to 2pi rather than 4 + 12 from zero to 2pi
 
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So I should have taken ds/dr ds/dtheta instead of the other way around to get the right sign, and I should have taken r dr dtheta rather than just dr dtheta, but even when I do that I still get the wrong answer

hmm.. I can't figure out how to get this one right without just using the divergence theorem
 
Well, your surface is a sphere, so it's normal has to be proportional to [itex]\vec{r}[/itex]... does that help you spot your mistake?
 
orig. posted by Hurkyl
Well, your surface is a sphere...
Isn't it a paraboloid?
 
Yes it is, ignore me!
 
Don't worry, Hurkyl, we do! :wink:
 
Don't worry; I figured it out on my own

Man, this site is so crappy for getting help on anything specific

Well, it's no big deal

If someone comes across this in the archives or something and wants me to tell them how to solve the problem, they can drop a line to killamarcilla@bigpen.us
 
Originally posted by KillaMarcilla
Man, this site is so crappy for getting help on anything specific
Because we don't just tell you the answer...?
 
I was busy at the time I answered; I thought I saw a quick hint, so I posted it.
 

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