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Chi: A real force?

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Line
#1
Apr26-06, 08:49 PM
P: 218
In Chinese philosophy they talk of a force called Chi. It's an electrical current that runs through your body,everything around you, and Earth.

I'm thinking maybe they weren't wrong. There is an electrical current that runs through you. It's the currents of your nervouce system. his may be what they were talking about.

Also there is a current that runs through your body. Just like theres 14 pounds of air per sqaure ince of your body there's lots ofelectrcity running through us. We're used to it so we don't feel anything. I'm wondering could this be CHi also.
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Gokul43201
#2
Apr27-06, 12:21 AM
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Chi (whatever else it may be, whether or not it exists) has nothing to do with electric currents. For instance, the seven chakras of the human body, where the concentration of chi is supposed to be greatest are uncorrelated with neuron concentrations.
J77
#3
Apr27-06, 04:03 AM
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When I used to do karate, we had to channel our Qi to stand firmer.

It does strangely work - the firmer bit. If you tense your muscles to stand firm, you can easily be knocked over. However, if you imagine your body flowing through the floor - as if you were fixed with your surroundings - it's very hard to move you, bit like a tree

Also, Qi is a very handy Scrabble word

scott1
#4
Apr27-06, 06:40 PM
P: 459
Chi: A real force?

I rember there being about a thread about some braceltet that blanced the "+ and - quatum ions" that were soppsed to be chi.But it sounds like a scam.
Ivan Seeking
#5
Apr28-06, 02:55 AM
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I know an engineer who will swear that the technique works, but he doesn't think there is anything mystical involved. However, when he started to explain to me what he saw as the prosaic explanation for why this works, it sounded like a real stretch to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense to me.

At one point he described how one can build up waves of energy. For example, if one is to throw a right punch, the waves might travel between the right fist and the rear-most foot. The most proficient experts can allegedly quickly produce seven waves, I think it was, which enables an incredibly powerful punch. As a black belt, my buddy could only get to three waves or so.

Allegedly one adds power by piling up waves such that they interfere constructively, if you will, at the fist, at the exact moment of the punch. Of course the question is: Waves of what? He thinks this is something like a mechanical wave traveling along the muscles, but that doesn't make any sense to me. True believers say it is the Chi energy. At the least, it appears that using and practicing this technique mentally, one can dramatically improve the effectiveness of a punch.
J77
#6
Apr28-06, 03:50 AM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
At one point he described how one can build up waves of energy. For example, if one is to throw a right punch, the waves might travel between the right fist and the rear-most foot. The most proficient experts can allegedly quickly produce seven waves, I think it was, which enables an incredibly powerful punch. As a black belt, my buddy could only get to three waves or so.
I think this describes Bruce Lee's famous one inch punch.

I've never heard it mentioned in terms of waves but there is standard (fundamental) technique to produce a powerful punch by, essentially, combining an exhalation (the grunt you hear martial artists make) with the twist (or snap in a kick) at the end of the move.

In some respects, this can be thought of as getting the different parts of the move in resonance with one another.
pallidin
#7
Apr28-06, 04:00 PM
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I've seen some really impressive Qi demonstration videos on the Web(sorry, don't know the links off-hand), but I still haven't quite determined how much of it is "real" with respect to Qi.
Ivan Seeking
#8
Apr28-06, 04:31 PM
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Quote Quote by J77
I think this describes Bruce Lee's famous one inch punch.

I've never heard it mentioned in terms of waves but there is standard (fundamental) technique to produce a powerful punch by, essentially, combining an exhalation (the grunt you hear martial artists make) with the twist (or snap in a kick) at the end of the move.

In some respects, this can be thought of as getting the different parts of the move in resonance with one another.
I have played around with the martial arts a little, and I think I know the feeling that he described. When at my best I did have a couple of pretty effective kicks, and there was a sense of something moving along the line of force when I threw my best kicks. I can remember noticing the effect and seeing the result that it had on the power of the kick, but I didn't know what I had done differently. I assumed at the time that this feeling was a coordinated body-wide motion, much like a baseball pitcher; maybe even that one senses the changing center of mass.
scott1
#9
Apr28-06, 04:46 PM
P: 459
Has there ever been any secientifc reasearch on Chi? And from paraphsycologist or some "paranormal secientist" but ones that have been reconginzed and funded by univeristies.

Also would there be anything in secience that we already know that could possible explain chi>
FredGarvin
#10
Apr29-06, 12:35 PM
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Oy. I am one serious skeptic when it comes to chi. There are thousands of chi hucksters out there. Gokul was right in pointing out that chi, ki, qi has nothing to do with electricity, but with a suppsed internal energy.

There is nothing I have seen in my experience in MA that can not be explained by physical knowledge. Bruce Lee's (and others') one inch punch is hard training and body mechanics. Guys like George Dillman who profess to be able to "take your energy" or can do no touch striking are simply delusional.

Any person that I have seen that felt they could channel their chi and then had to prove it in a test, failed miserably. Most things that are attributed to chi are really cheap party tricks and are pretty easy to explain.
Ivan Seeking
#11
Apr29-06, 03:23 PM
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Quote Quote by FredGarvin
There is nothing I have seen in my experience in MA that can not be explained by physical knowledge. Bruce Lee's (and others') one inch punch is hard training and body mechanics.
Did Bruce Lee believe in Chi energy?

For me the question is not whether or not the physical feats achieved by the most proficient MAs can be explained, but rather, has it all been explained? I still have a hard time understanding how some things can be possible. And I do realize that part of the MA mysticism is smoke and mirrors. I've seen the side show tricks used at Shaolin or similar temples.
Gokul43201
#12
Apr29-06, 03:57 PM
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Quote Quote by FredGarvin
Most things that are attributed to chi are really cheap party tricks and are pretty easy to explain.
One that isn't is Rei-ki. This alternative healing practice has spread pretty rapidly, and is being used in many hospitals around the world (mostly as a supplement to the regular treatment). I don't know if there have been any statistical studies to compare Reiki effects with say, placebo effects. I've heard several "miraculous" stories of successful Reiki treatments (a friend and a close relative are Reiki masters), but I'm not aware of any scientific tests.

http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/reiki_in_hospitals.html
Doc Al
#13
Apr29-06, 05:18 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
For me the question is not whether or not the physical feats achieved by the most proficient MAs can be explained, but rather, has it all been explained? I still have a hard time understanding how some things can be possible. And I do realize that part of the MA mysticism is smoke and mirrors. I've seen the side show tricks used at Shaolin or similar temples.
I've been involved in the martial arts for decades and I'm still waiting for a demonstration of non-physical "chi" (along with FredGarvin, apparently). I'm talking about the BS-ers who claim that they have abilities that "go beyond" the physical.

The (non-BS) masters I know who use the term "chi" readily admit that it's "nothing more" than exquisite reflexes, balance, sensitivity, and body mechanics. Of course, that "nothing more" is plenty--some of these guys will blow your mind! But... violate the laws of physics? Get real.

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if it "has all been explained?" Explained in what sense? (There's plenty going on in daily life that *I* can't explain, no need to look for esoterica. ) Is there something in particular that you are thinking of?

As far as Reiki goes... I remain skeptical: http://skepdic.com/reiki.html
Ivan Seeking
#14
Apr29-06, 05:22 PM
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Well, take the breaking of bricks and boards. First of all, what is the most extreme legitimate demo that you have seen?

Also, note that I never said anything about violating the laws of physics. In fact, I said that this is not in question - by definition.
CosmologyHobbyist
#15
May2-06, 11:17 AM
P: 30
I thought this item is way cool... Anyone ever use one?
http://www.kirlian.org/interesting/egely/index2.htm
Ivan Seeking
#16
May2-06, 11:35 AM
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Why do you think you're not being scammed?
CosmologyHobbyist
#17
May2-06, 11:49 AM
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Thought it looked cool, was wondering if anyone could verify it. Please, dont anyone spend $200 for a piece of cardboard because I mentioned it! :D
Ivan Seeking
#18
May2-06, 12:01 PM
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I'm sure that Fred or Doc Al will have a word or two about devices like this.


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