Could the Universe Be a Holographic Information System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of the universe as a holographic information system, delving into the implications of quantum mechanics, entropy, and the nature of information in relation to physical phenomena. Participants examine theoretical frameworks, mathematical constructs, and philosophical interpretations regarding the nature of reality, time, and space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quantum entities are fundamentally probability distributions linked to a universal wave function, suggesting that properties like spin and charge are not intrinsic to particles but rather emergent from wave interactions.
  • Others argue that the continual collapse of these wave functions into localized particles represents a dynamic process that can be interpreted as the flow of time, with entropy increasing as a measure of information density within the universe.
  • A later reply questions the analogy between black holes and the universe, noting that if the universe is closed, it cannot radiate energy externally, which complicates the understanding of information and entropy in this context.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between entropy and information, referencing Boltzmann's and Shannon's definitions, and suggesting that both forms of entropy convey similar concepts regarding the number of states available in a system.
  • There is a proposal that the information associated with phenomena in three-dimensional space can be represented on a two-dimensional boundary, drawing parallels to holographic principles.
  • Participants explore the implications of Cantorian infinities and symmetry in relation to the structure of the universe, suggesting that higher degrees of symmetry correspond to greater complexity and information density.
  • Some contributions reflect on the philosophical implications of space and time as constructs of consciousness, proposing that these dimensions may not be fundamental aspects of reality but rather perceptions shaped by human cognition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of the universe as a holographic system, with no clear consensus reached. Various interpretations of quantum mechanics, entropy, and the philosophical implications of these concepts remain contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes complex mathematical and theoretical constructs that may depend on specific definitions and assumptions, which are not universally agreed upon. The relationship between entropy, information, and the nature of reality is explored but remains unresolved.

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Quantum entities are described as probability distributions, which are attributes of an underlying phase space, where the properties-attributes such as "spin" and "charge" are not the attributes of individual particles, but they are universally distributive entities, being the attributes of a "coherent wave function". It is this wave-distribution property that then "decoheres" into the ostensible "wave function collapse", as waves become localized particles that are "in phase" creating standing-spherical-wave resonances, which are condensations of space itself. The continual collapse-condensation of space into matter-energy is the continual "change", i.e. the property called "time". The spherical waves, or probability distributions are represented by the Schrödinger wave function, "psi".

The continual intersection and collapse of probability distributions, also known as quantum phase entanglement, is a continual increasing of the "total" combined information of the universal wavefunction itself. Information density. With more information, more complex structures can be created.

Quantum mechanics leads us to the realization that all matter-energy can be explained in terms of "waves" or probability distributions containing information. In a confined region(i.e. a closed universe or a black hole) the waves exist as STANDING WAVES In a closed system, the entropy never decreases.

The analogy with black holes is an interesting one but if there is nothing outside the universe, then it cannot be radiating energy outside itself as black holes are explained to be. So the amount of information i.e. "quantum states" in the universe is increasing. We see it as entropy, but to an information processor with huge computational capabilities, it is compressible information.

The information density of the universal system must be increasing. The increase of information density is analogous to a pressure gradient.

[density 1]--->[density 2]--->[density 3]---> ... --->[density n]


[<-[->[<-[-><-]->]<-]->]

Intersecting wavefronts = increasing density of spacelike slices

As the wavefronts intersect, it becomes a mathematical computation:

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, ...2^n


According to conventional theories, the surface area of the horizon surrounding a black hole, measures its entropy, where entropy is defined as a measure of the number of internal states that the black hole can be in without looking different to an outside observer, who must measure only mass, rotation, and charge. Another theory states that the maximum entropy of any closed region of space can never exceed one quarter of the area of the circumscribing surface, with the entropy being the measure of the total information contained by the system.

S' = S_m + A/4

So the "black hole" theorists came to realize that the information associated with all phenomena in the three dimensional world, can be stored on a two dimensional boundary, analogous to the storing of a holographic image.

Since entropy can also be defined as the number of states, that particles can be in within within a region of space, and the entropy of the universe must always increase, the next logical step is to realize that the spacetime density, i.e. the information encoded within a circumscribed region of space, must be increasing in the thermodynamic direction of time.

Of course, thermodynamic entropy is popularly described as the disorder or "randomness" in a physical system. In 1877, the physicist Ludwig Boltzmann defined entropy more precisely. He defined it in terms of the number of distinct microscopic states that the particles in a system can be configured, while still looking like the same macroscopic system. For example, a system such as a gas cloud, one would count the ways that the individual gas molecules could be distributed, and moving.

In1948, mathematician Claude E. Shannon, introduced today's most widely used measure of information content: entropy. The Shannon entropy of a message is the number of binary digits, i.e. "bits" needed to encode it. While the structure, quality, or value, of the information in Shannon entropy may be an unknown, the quantity of information can be known. Shannon entropy and thermodynamic entropy are equivalent.

The universal laws of nature are explained in terms of symmetry. The completed infinities, mathematician Georg Cantor's infinite sets, could be explained as cardinal identities, akin to "qualia" [Universally distributed attributes] from which finite subsets, and elements of subsets [quantum decoherence-wave function collapse] can be derived.

Completed infinities, called "alephs" are distributive in nature, similar to the way that a set of "red" objects has the distributive property of redness[qualia]. Properties, or "attributes" like red are numbers in the sense that they interact algebraically according to the laws of Boolean algebra. Take one object away from the set of red objects and the distributive number "red" still describes the set. The distributive identity[attribute] "natural number" or "real number" describes an entire collection of individual objects.

The alephs can be set into a one to one correspondence with a proper subset of of themselves. The "infinite" Cantorian alephs are really distributive[qualia].

Yet, if we have a finite set of 7 objects, the cardinal number 7 does not really distribute over its individual subsets. Take anything away from the set and the number 7 ceases to describe it[wave function collapse-condensation into specific localization?].

Symmetry is analogous to a generalized form of self evident truth, and it is a distributive attribute via the laws of nature, being distributed over the entire system called universe. A stratification of Cantorian alephs with varying degrees of complexity. Less complexity = greater symmetry = higher infinity-alephs. So the highest aleph, the "absolute-infinity" distributes over the entire set called Universe and gives it "identity".

The highest symmetry is a distributive mathematical identity[also a total unknown but possibly analogous to a state of "nothingness"]. This fact is reflected in part, by the conservation laws.

So an unbound-infinite-potentia and a constrained-finite-bound-actuality, are somehow different yet the same. The difference and sameness relation is a duality. Freedom(higher symmetry) and constraint-complexity-organizational structure(lesser symmetry) form a relation that can be described by an invariance principle.

On a flat Euclidean surface, the three angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees. On the curved surface of a sphere, the three angles add up to more than 180 degrees. On the hyperbolic surface of a saddle they sum to less than 180 degrees. The three types of surface are not equivalent.

There is a rotational invariance for a triangle, that seems to hold for the three types of surface though.

ABC = BCA = CAB
CBA = BAC = ACB

According to Einstein, and the CTMU of Langan, www.ctmu.org , "space and time are modes by which we think, and not conditions in which we live". Space becomes abstract, a relation that is perceptual and "mental", where distance interval between two points becomes a mental perception.

[ abstract representation]--->[semantic mapping]--->[represented system]


An abstract representation is exactly that, "abstract". It is not a space, or time, but is instead a product of consciousness, or a mental construct. Topologically it is equivalent to a "point". The abstract description contains the concrete topology. Likewise, the concrete contains the abstract.

A duality.

A point contains an infinite expanse of space and time?

Could it be, that the "absolute" infinity, is actually a dimensionless point? Or more correctly, an "infinitesimal"?
Universe? = Zero?


On one level of stratification, two photons are separate. On another level, of stratification, the photons have zero separation.

Instantaneous communication between two objects, separated by a distance interval, is equivalent to zero separation[zero boundary] between the two objects.

According to the book "Gravitation", chapter 15, geometry of spacetime gives instructions to matter telling matter to follow the straightest path, which is a geodesic. Matter in turn, tells spacetime geometry how to curve in such a way, as to guarantee the conservation of momentum and energy. The Einstein tensor[geometric feature-description] is also conserved in this relationship between matter and the spacetime geometry. Eli Cartan's "boundary of a boundary equals zero."

A point can be defined as an "infinitesimal". The Topological spaces are defined as being diffeomorphism invariant. Intersecting cotangent bundles[manifolds] are the set of all possible configurations of a system, i.e. they describe the phase space of the system.

Waves are then abstract distributions and particles are convergent "concrete" localizations.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
A - B

= [A^[1/2] - B^[1/2]]*[A^[1/2] + B^[1/2] ]

= [A^[1/4] - B^[1/4]]*[A^[1/4] + B^[1/4]]*[A^[1/2] + B^[1/2]]

= [A^[1/8] - B^[1/8]]*[A^[1/8] + B^[1/8]]*[A^[1/4] + B^[1/4]]*[A^[1/2] + B^[1/2]] ... [A^[1/n] - B^[1/n]] ... which becomes an infinite product...

A + B is also infinite?:

A + B = [A^[1/2] - i*B^[1/2]]*[A^[1/2] + i*B^[1/2]]...etc.

A^[1/n] - B^[1/n]

A---> 1, B---> 1, as n---> oo

So as n --->oo , A^[1/n] - B^[1/n] approaches zero...

Interesting

Roll over Zeno
A^[1/n] - B^[1/n]]*[A^[1/n] + B^[1/n]] ...

As n--->oo

The expression approches [1 - 1]*[1 + 1] ---> 0*2

At infinity, does mathematical existence become a self similar pattern?

02020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202 0202020202020202020202020202020202
0202020202020202020202020202020202 02020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202
020202020202 0202020202020202
Phoenix at http://207.70.190.98/scgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=13;t=228;st=40;&#entry866

discovered this mathematical relation for the Absolute:
we also have U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U&isin
;U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸ U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U&isi
n;U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U& is
in;U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U¸U with no beginning and no end.
end quote.
Those symbols could represent something analogous to the "yin - yang" or Tao?

2 - valued logic?

TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFT...

An infinite number of mathematical relations intersect at infinity. Infinite symmetry.

Since entropy can also be defined as the number of states, that particles can be in within within a region of space, and the entropy of the universe must always increase, the next logical step is to realize that the spacetime density, i.e. the information encoded within a circumscribed region of space, must be increasing in the thermodynamic direction of time.


In1948, mathematician Claude E. Shannon, introduced today's most widely used measure of information content: entropy. The Shannon entropy of a message is the number of binary digits, i.e. "bits" needed to encode it. While the structure, quality, or value, of the information in Shannon entropy may be an unknown, the quantity of information can be known. Shannon entropy and thermodynamic entropy are equivalent.

If the locality principle is not going to be thrown into the trash heap, then a viable option is that space is something analogous to homogeneously distributed probability density functions(a perfect fluid?) i.e. increasing density gradients, giving the observed thermodynamic arrow of time. The observed cosmic expansion is a "relative" one! A "perspective effect" from our local vantage point. A shrinking object gives the illusion of receding motion. Increasing *refractive* density gradients give the appearence of a doppler-red-shift. Space increases density as matter is re-sized.

Spacetime then "remembers" the input! A quantum measurement is made, the action principle demands the shortest distance between two points be taken, whatever that may be. There is no instantaneous action at a distance!

A universal function of symmetry?
It seems that in order to continue with the idea of a physically infinite "multiverse" instantaneous communication at a distance must be accepted as an absurd axiom. But we must remember, Newtons classical reality was superceded by Albert Einstein's relativity! There is no action at a distance!

Instantaneous action at a distance was shown to be unecessary, by Einstein's theories of special and general relativity. How can an infinite multiverse be in accordance with probability theory if all of the separate universes are not in a type of corrspondence with each other? Who observes the entire multiverse?


Photons are wave-fronts of processed space-time, a lot like the frames on a movie reel. Time is a process. We don't move through time, we are processed BY time.

|-->|-->|-->|-->[photon]

Wavefronts ==> cotangent vectors = one forms

As a thought experiment, imagine a perfectly smooth homogenous liquid or "fluid" that stretches out to infinity. An open universe of infinite space-time radius, is equivalent to a closed finite "big shrink", conspanding, or compression universe. There are as many fractions from zero to one as there are natural numbers from zero to infinity.

The fluid has a small distortion or vortice moving in in it. How can the velocity of the "vortice" in the fluid be measured? Its motion can only be relative to another vortice.

The thermodynamic arrow of time, points in the direction of continually increasing space-time density. Increasing density gradients. It is a ratio adaption:

{S/T}_n = {S/T}_n+1

S and T are reducing in tandem, such, that their ratio remains a constant c, for the velocity of a photon of light.

S<--{energy}---------->T

Energy compresses{resists} space and dilates{stretches} time.

Since potential energy equals kinetic energy, gravitational mass must equal inertial mass. An increase in kinetic energy always causes resistance in space-time.


Actually, spacetime does not really need to be "sliced up" in that it can proceed in discrete steps, yet, still be continuous.

[density 1]--->[density 2]--->[density 3]---> ... --->[density n]


The information density[i.e. Shannon entropy] of space increases. This is a relation and its inverse.

For example, unity is a constant, representable by:

[1 = c ] = [1/2 + 1/2] = [1/4 + 3/4] = [1/5 + 4/5] = [1/6 + 5/6]

The left fraction represents [energy/momentum] and the right fraction represents compressed [space/time] density, where space means "distance interval" , a relative measurement.

[E/p]<--->[S/T]

[1/R]<--->[R]

The physics for a circle of radius R, is the same for a circle of radius 1/R

E/p = S/T = c

[Space/time] and [energy/momentum] are two different forms of the same invariant quantity [c].

[E/p]_n = [E/p]_n+1 = [S/T]_n = [S/T]_n+1


Yes, c+c = c

[c + c]/[1 + c^2/c^2] = c

So E/p + S/t = 2c/2 = c

S/T = E/p = S/T + E/p = c



A simple diagram-equation representing the unified force:

|{real n-dimensions = ct }
|
|
|
|<--------{quantum vacuum ~ ict}
|
|
|
|
|{real numbers}

Reality is a damped harmonic oscillation, a system at resonance:

{ict}^2 + {ct}^2 ~ 0

One force

F ~ m*m'/d^2

F ~ A/d^4 ~ Casimir effect

F ~ q*q'/d^2

m = mass

A = 2 dimensional area

q = electric charge

d = distance


-[F]^2 ---->|U|<---- +[F]2

Simple harmonic oscillation given by the equation [F]^2 = -[K*X]^2

What is K ? What is X ?

U stands for universe. So it becomes reasonable to assume that the entire universe is analogous to that which is inside the event horizon of a black hole. The cosmos becomes a quantum superposition of states, collapsing under the crushing force of "nothingness".

Analytically continue the Schwarzschild solution to the imaginary values of the time variable. The Schwarzschild solution becomes periodic in the imaginary time direction.

All waves would then be standing waves in the closed universe. A Schrödinger wave equation in one dimension is of the form:

d^2 psi/dx^2 + [2m/hbar^2] [E - U{x}] psi[x]

U{x} is the potential energy and E is the total energy.

psi[x]is the wave function for a state in which the energy E is constant in time. Such states are called stationary states. Certain definite vibration frequencies are allowed multiples of fundamental wavelengths

lambda = h/p

|psi[x]|^2 dx, is the probability of finding a particle{universe} in a certain state between the region x and x+dx

psi^2 = psi psi* . When psi is complex, psi* is the complex conjugate of psi. psi^2 [x] is the probability density.

An equation for the damped oscillator in one dimension:

X = A[exp[-{b/2m}t]]*cos[wt + theta]

Spacetime becomes compressed. As the time evolution proceeds in the thermodynamic direction of t, the space like sheets continually increase in density. The information storage of space time.

[->[->[-><-]<-]<-]

This increasing refractive spacetime density must be background independent. The increasing density functions are, in a sense, equivalent to the non-Euclidean geometry of Riemann and Einstein.

Is gravity a statistical probability distribution?

Yes, the force called gravity is actually geometry, non-Euclidean geometry, where spacetime becomes anisotropic and inhomogeneous in the presence of mass-energy. Also representable as a Gaussian distribution.

Then the question becomes "what is space?" "What is time?"

Space is relational. Time is a process.

Heisenberg Uncertainty:

DxDp >= hbar/2

The relation becomes totally "chaotic" below the Planck length. So, space could be described as a self similar relation which is generated by the quantum foam, and forms Penrose's "spin networks". Something possibly analogous to 010101010101010101...TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF...

The curvature of spacetime could be represented as a Gaussian distribution. If mathematics only is an approximation of reality, then the mathematics of probability corresponds "exactly" with reality.

The Riemann tensor explains how a tangent vector, parallel translated around a tiny parallellogram is changed. So, to say that spacetime is "curved" means how much a tangent vector changes during parallel transport around a loop. Parallel transport is the translation of an infinitesimal tangent vector along a geodesic.

Yes, the probability distribution should agree exactly with the Riemann tensor of Einstein's relativity, or better.
 
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From the book "Mystery of the Aleph", the axioms of set theory:

3rd Axiom, The Axiom of Specification:


To every set A and every condition S(x) there corresponds a set B whose elements are exactly those elements x of A for which S(x) holds. This is the axiom that leads to Russell's paradox. For if we let the condition S(x) be: not(x element of x), then B = {x in A such that x is not in x}. Is B a member of B? If it is, then it isn't; and if it isn't, then it is. Therefore B cannot be in A, meaning that nothing contains everything.


While all of mathematics sees it as a paradox, I see it as an absolutely true statement:

Nothing contains everything

So it seems to me, that the Absolute infinity is analogous to a condition of total Nothingness... also total Beingness...

.

To explain existence as a "Being" seems to be to say nothing specific about existence at all. The concept of Being is an empty concept, whose content is nothing. Yet also, there is the concept, of Nothing, which has equivalently, the same content as the concept of Being, but which seems to stand in diametric opposition to it. Nothingness is the negation of existence and Being is the essence of existence, ergo, Being and Nothing must form a synthesis, a "Hegelian Dialectic"? where the new synthesis is what we call the "Set of all Sets" or the "Absolute Infinity". Therefore Nothingness is of the same determination, or rather, an abscence of determination, and thus altogether the same as the pure essence of Beingness. On the other hand, paradoxically, Being and Nothing are not the same. So we have the difference of Being and Nothing passing into identity, and the identity passing into difference. Ergo, their truth is a dynamic, the dynamic is an immediate vanishing of one in the other: becoming, a movement in which both are distinguished, yet both are a aspects of a higher level of symmetry.
 
Experiment to test your ideas?

Could you please describe an experiment which would test your idea? Are there any experiments - traditionally used to show that QM, SR, GR, etc are good descriptions of reality - for which your idea predicts a different outcome from that which has been reported?
 
Nature of human thought

I hope you might enjoy reading the following article on the Nature of Human Thought. http://nariphaltan.virtualave.net/humanthought.pdf

Cheers.http://nariphaltan.virtualave.net/humanthought.pdf
 
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