QGravity, masses and CKM matrix all for free

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter arivero
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    ckm ckm matrix Matrix
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around speculative ideas related to general relativity (GR), the CKM matrix, and the concept of mass in the context of quantum mechanics and potential ambiguities in quantization. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and postulates that connect these concepts, with references to past works and personal notes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an undeterminacy principle for GR, suggesting that when transforming to Minkowskian coordinates, the infinitesimal volume cannot be determined precisely due to Planck's constant.
  • This participant introduces a method to derive momentum using separate mass values for different quark types (m_e, m_u, m_d) instead of using Planck mass.
  • Another participant references previous work on ambiguities in quantization and expresses a desire to formalize these ambiguities through the tangent groupoid, potentially linking to spectral triples.
  • There are mentions of earlier notes and papers that relate to the discussion, indicating a historical context and ongoing exploration of these ideas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various speculative ideas and references to past works, but there is no clear consensus or resolution on the concepts discussed. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their approaches, including the dependence on specific interpretations of mass and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in their proposals.

arivero
Gold Member
Messages
3,498
Reaction score
203
I'd like to know if someone has seen/read, at least in part, some of this rumbling anywhere (beyond my own speculations, this is). It should be nice to know if it coincides with some other "speculator".

Postulate an undeterminacy principle for GR:
when transforming locally to minkowskian coordinates, you can not determine, up to plank constant, the infinitesimal volume where the transformation applies.

Now, such infinitesim is given by a generic coordinate vector x and a infinitesimal displacement (dx0, dx1, dx2, dx3). From this displacement you can get a velocity vector (1,dx1/dx0,dx2/dx0,dx3/dx0). To get units of momenta, one multiplies it by a mass. ¿Plank mass? ¡No! you can -and you will- use a separate mass value for each coordinate: m_n, m_e, m_u, m_d.

In this way you have got a momentum (m_e dx1/dx0, m_u dx1/dx0. m_d dx3/dx0) for the infinitesimal volume, and now you are can impose the condition [x,p]=h. Note that m_n=0 at this order.

Now one must build the riemann tensor. but this procedure involves first and second derivatives of metric. Regretly (well, not) the left and right derivatives do not coincide anymore because the indeterminacy does not let us to take the zero limit in derivatives. Thus we will introduce a matrix to control the ambiguity process in each derivation. This will be the CKM matrix.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think I was trying to exploit https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.522810 ambiguities.

In my arxive I can see at least a related note https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0007027

At that time at was unaware of Kaluza Klein interpretation of mass, so I was looking for something without extra dimensions, and then I though about ambiguities in quantization. I was expecting to be able to formalise them via the tangent groupoid, and then perhaps to connect with Connes-Lott-Chamseddine spectral triples. Ambitious, it was.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Greg Bernhardt
https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9905021 was another in this topic, and surely most of my early notes from years 96 to 2000, they are just light scraps as at that time I was already outside the academy, working in computer science as a lot of my kin.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
29K