How can something be the smallest

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "smallest particles" in the universe and the nature of space, particularly in relation to vacuums and the philosophical implications of emptiness and existence. Participants explore theoretical and abstract ideas regarding the relationship between particles and space, as well as the implications of a vacuum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Philosophical
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how space can exist between the smallest particles, suggesting that space must be occupied by something.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of emptiness by asking how a vacuum can exist if space cannot be empty.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the concepts of full and empty are interdependent and cannot be logically separated, proposing a conceptual framework for understanding space and particles.
  • One participant asserts that a vacuum is not equivalent to "nothing," as it still possesses metric properties due to gravitational fields.
  • Another participant posits that if space-time is discrete, it implies the existence of a smallest piece of matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of space, emptiness, and the existence of vacuums, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on philosophical implications and definitions of terms like "vacuum" and "space," which may depend on varying interpretations and assumptions that are not fully resolved.

JoseCapablanca
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how can something be the "smallest"

While siting at work and doing nothing as usual a thought came to me...how can there be space in between the "smallest particles" when and if we do find them? Dosnt space need to be occupied by something no matter how small or rudimentary? What will we find, What will we find...when we find, the smallest particle. Let's say that there cannot be space in between these particles and that these particles make a cohesive sheet through out the universe, I wonder what would happen if we could knock one of these particles out of alignment what would be "behind" or what would take its place seeing that space cannot be occupied by nothing (if that's the case I don't know that it is).
well that's as far as I got until my phone rang. Help me on this, I bombed physics in college, but hold a Love for the abstract thought.
 
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if space cannot be empty... how do you explain a vacuum?
 
how can somethin be empty if it doesn't exist
 
Perhaps you shouldn't be thinking of particles as something exclusively as full... up against empty, but rather empty against the concept of full. In other words - Two concepts which cannot be separated by any logical mechanism whatsoever but which are nevertheless different -----like the front and back of a door. Zero and one fit this bill, and a plethora of these entities can share the geometry involved. Hence a point in space can be shared by several units. I.E. A point in space can be represented briefly by one unit while another and yet another is briefly representing that same point that is no longer represented by the unit that left.

If you break the mold - That of a physical universe in favor of a conceptual one that obeys physical laws. You could actually understand what I said above
 
Originally posted by JoseCapablanca
how can somethin be empty if it doesn't exist

Which are you claiming doesn't exist... vacuum or space?
 
aren't we getting a bit philosophical here?

Is space a perfect vacuum anyway?

Gary
 
Originally posted by Norman
if space cannot be empty... how do you explain a vacuum?

Because "vacuum" is not the same as "nothing".

In a space where there is no matter, there is still a field that gives it its metric properties (namely, the gravitational field). If you have no metric field, then your "space" has no extension and no time intervals on it.
 
if space-time is discrete then there must be a smallest piece of matter

Gary
 

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