What is the origin of the name Tri-Bimaximal?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mjsd
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origin and meaning of the term "Tri-Bimaximal" as it relates to a specific mixing matrix in particle physics. Participants explore the implications of the matrix's structure and the nomenclature associated with it, touching on both theoretical and historical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the origin of the name "Tri-Bimaximal," seeking clarification on how it relates to the matrix's properties, specifically the two large mixing angles and the 1/√3 factor.
  • Another participant explains that "bi-maximal mixing" refers to the maximal mixing of muon and tau neutrino flavor eigenstates, while "tri-maximal mixing" indicates a full mixing of all three flavor eigenstates in the second column of the matrix.
  • Some participants express a sense of confusion regarding the terminology, suggesting that physicists often use names that may seem odd or unclear.
  • A participant recounts an anecdote about a referee rejecting a paper based on the perceived absurdity of the term "tribimaximal," indicating a potential misunderstanding of its significance.
  • Another participant clarifies that it was not a referee but a particle theorist who dismissed the paper without reading it due to the title, highlighting issues in how physicists engage with literature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and acceptance of the term "Tri-Bimaximal." There is no consensus on the appropriateness of the name, and some participants indicate that the term may be viewed negatively by others in the field.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of misunderstandings regarding the term "Tri-Bimaximal" and its implications, as well as concerns about the depth of engagement with complex mathematical concepts in physics literature.

mjsd
Homework Helper
Messages
725
Reaction score
3
Why "Tri-Bimaximal"?

\displaymath{U_{PMNS}=\begin{pmatrix}<br /> \sqrt{2/3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 0\\<br /> -1/\sqrt{6}&amp; 1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{2}\\<br /> 1/\sqrt{6}&amp; -1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{2}\end{pmatrix}}

This matrix implies \theta_{13}=0, \sin \theta_{12} = 1/\sqrt{3} (ie. not maximal mixing) and \theta_{23}=\pi/4 (ie. maximal mixing)

OK, to my question, WHY do we call this matrix "Tri-Bimaximal"? How does this name come about? Two large mixing angles and the 1/\sqrt{3}?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
mjsd said:
\displaymath{U_{PMNS}=\begin{pmatrix}<br /> \sqrt{2/3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 0\\<br /> -1/\sqrt{6}&amp; 1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{2}\\<br /> 1/\sqrt{6}&amp; -1/\sqrt{3}&amp; 1/\sqrt{2}\end{pmatrix}}

This matrix implies \theta_{13}=0, \sin \theta_{12} = 1/\sqrt{3} (ie. not maximal mixing) and \theta_{23}=\pi/4 (ie. maximal mixing)

OK, to my question, WHY do we call this matrix "Tri-Bimaximal"? How does this name come about? Two large mixing angles and the 1/\sqrt{3}?

The "bi-maximal mixing" is from the third column -- that means the third mass eigenstate is a maximal mixing state of muon neutrino and tauon neutrino flavor eigenstates.

Whereas the "tri-maximal mixing" can be seen from the second column -- the second mass eigenstate is a full mixing of all the three flavor eigenstates (each of them occupies 1/3)
 
oh well, physicists have weird names for things...but I knew this one has good meaning (for someone told me before, but I forgot). Thanks.
 
mjsd said:
oh well, physicists have weird names for things...but I knew this one has good meaning (for someone told me before, but I forgot). Thanks.

Someone (CarlB?) had a history about a referee rejecting a paper on grounds of the absurdity of using such name, tribimaximal, in the title or abstract of a paper.
 
arivero said:
Someone (CarlB?) had a history about a referee rejecting a paper on grounds of the absurdity of using such name, tribimaximal, in the title or abstract of a paper.

perhaps those guys (like me before) didn't quite know the meaning of tribimaximal when they are using them (although I am very well aware of all the properties of the mixing matrix, I didn't know tri-bimaximal really means tri-maximal and bi-maximal)? May be there are ppl out there who really hate the term tri-bimaximal.
:smile:
 
Actually, it wasn't a referee rejecting it, just a particle theorist who wouldn't read past the title of the Koide paper that said "tribimaximal".

The sociologists have studied how physicists read physics papers and it turns out that very few papers that are "read" actually are considered at all beyond a very shallow level. The mathematics is usually too difficult to allow people to spend the time to read much.

See the paper Does understanding physical science need deep mathematical knowledge? at this site:
http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/schoolsanddivisions/academicschools/socsi/staff/acad/collins/expertise/index.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
507
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
2K