Uncertainty Principle: Missing Target by Typical Distance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the uncertainty principle to a marble dropped from a height, specifically focusing on the typical distance by which it may miss a target below. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding the uncertainty principle in the context of macroscopic objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant queries the applicability of the uncertainty principle to a marble, suggesting it is typically associated with sub-atomic particles.
  • Another participant proposes a method to calculate the extreme values of position and velocity of the marble using kinematic equations, considering initial uncertainties in position and velocity.
  • A different participant presents a reasoning that suggests a collective behavior of particles could lead to a lower uncertainty in position, questioning the implications of this reasoning on the marble's trajectory.
  • This same participant expresses uncertainty about their reasoning and acknowledges a lack of recent engagement with physics, indicating a desire for clarification on their thought process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the uncertainty principle to macroscopic objects like a marble, with some questioning its relevance while others attempt to apply it mathematically. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of applying the uncertainty principle in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their reasoning, including assumptions about the behavior of particles and the implications of collective particle dynamics on uncertainty. There is also a noted lack of consensus on the foundational principles being discussed.

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Can anyone help me on this??

In a contest to drop a marble with mass 30 g from the roof of a building onto a small target 50 m below. From uncertainty principle considerations, what is the typical distance by which you will miss the target, given that you aim with the highest possible accuracy? Ignore wind and air resistance.

[Hint: Let x be the coordinate in the horizontal direction. You should realize that the uncertainty in the position x of the marble when it reaches the ground depends on both the initial uncertainty in the position xi, and the initial uncertainty in the speed vx.]
 
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Let the initial position x0 lie in the interval:
[-dx,dx]

Let the initial velocity v0 lie in the interval:
[-dv,dv]

Now use the ordinary kinematic equations to figure out the extreme values of x(t) and v(t) when the marble hits the target.
 
Would the uncertainty principle apply to a marble?

I was always told that it applied to sub-atomic particles. Even atoms were supposed to obey semi-classical formula in my education.
 
I've had a longer think about this question (and I haven't done any active physics for years, please forgive the poorly articulated argument) but I would expect the following:

A particle of uncertainty dX has 2/3 chance of being in the region
x +/- dx.

Two particles each with an uncertainty of dx in a system (ignoring the interactions) should have a centre with a lower uncertainty. Even if both particles are outside the 2/3 probability, if one is on the extreme left and one on the extreme right, this would cancel.

So a mole of particles(or say 10^23) should have a centre with almost no uncertainty even without taking into account the structure of the substance.

I reason that the same is true of particle momenta.

I think this reasoning is wrong because you are all brilliant and I'm useless (and the marble question sounds like a formal one). But why?

Sorry this post was put together at lunch in a cafe. I usally have time to make a proper go of it.
 

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