Amazing new experiment proposed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a proposed experiment that aims to test the predictions of General Relativity (GR) with significantly improved precision. Participants explore the implications of this experiment for various theories of everything (TOEs) and the relevance of relativity in practical applications like the Global Positioning System (GPS).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant highlights that the proposed experiment could test GR predictions 30,000 times better than current methods, potentially verifying discrepancies in TOEs.
  • Another participant expresses surprise at the scientific utility of the International Space Station (ISS) in this context.
  • A question is raised regarding the necessity of relativity for the functionality of GPS, emphasizing that without time corrections predicted by Special Relativity (SR), GPS would be ineffective.
  • Further discussion reveals that significant time differences due to relativistic effects exist, prompting curiosity about the magnitude of these differences.
  • A participant references an article discussing the need for time dilation corrections in GPS, noting that both relativity advocates and ether theory proponents arrive at similar conclusions regarding the necessity of these corrections.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of the Sagnac effect and its implications for SR and General Relativity, with some arguing it presents a classical correction rather than a relativistic one.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Sagnac effect for relativity, with some supporting the classical correction perspective while others maintain a relativistic interpretation. Overall, there is no consensus on the interpretations of these effects and their relevance to GPS.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the applicability of relativity to GPS technology and the interpretation of experimental results, which remain unresolved.

Brad_Ad23
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http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/26mar_einstein.htm?list531723

This would test the predictions of GR 30,000 times better than the current best test--enough to start verifying predictions made by some of the current proposals for TOEs, in terms of descrepancies.


Note to mods: I wasn't sure where to put this, so feel free to move it wherever it may be more appropriate.
 
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Actually a scientific use for the ISS! Will wonders never cease.
 
Why is this:

"The Global Positioning System (GPS), for instance, wouldn't be possible without the theory of relativity."
 
What the article is saying is that unless the time corrections predicted as being necessary by SR are preset into the orbiting clocks, the errors would be so great as to make GPS useless
 
Ahh.. Thats freaking interesting. I wouldn't think there would be enough time difference to even notice. Obviously, I'm wrong. How big of a difference would it be?
 
http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp
 
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Aycamo----Chen cited one of the Tom Van Flanderan articles - The Loretz-Ether types arrive at the same result as to the need to provide an offset to correct for time dilation.

Whether you are a stanch relativity advocate or prefer to treat the problem as due to motion with respect to an ether - the equations are the same. The ether types claim there is difference however when it comes to compensating for the Earth's rotation, i.e., that GPS disproves SR a la the one way Sagnac effect - the relativity boys claim its really a problem for the General theory - but in actuality - it is a classical correction that needs to be made because the receiver is moving with respect to the Earth centered reference frame - so during the time required for the satellite signal to arrive, the transmission path length has changed - this corresponds to a fraction of a usec - but light travels about 30 meters in 0.1 usec. So by way of illustration, the clocks do not have to be very far off to generate a large positional error.
 

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