Dr. Robert Forward's curvature gradient detector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Dr. Robert Forward's curvature gradient detector, also known as the Forward mass detector, which is claimed to detect small gradients in the curvature of spacetime. Participants explore its theoretical basis, practical applications, and related technologies, including gravitational wave detection and gravity gradiometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Bob Walance introduces the Forward mass detector and shares a link to Dr. Forward's website, expressing interest in potentially building the device.
  • Some participants note the theoretical soundness of the device but question its sensitivity due to size limitations, comparing it to existing gravitational wave detectors.
  • One participant mentions that the device is used to map gravitational inhomogeneities on Earth and highlights its practical applications in the oil industry.
  • Another participant references a NASA document related to the patent of the detector, indicating interest in further research.
  • Participants discuss the sensitivity of gravity gradiometers and mention a historical prototype's capabilities in measuring curvature related to large geological features.
  • Several participants express appreciation for the book "Gravitation" by Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler (MTW), citing its comprehensive coverage of general relativity topics.
  • Links to additional resources and papers related to gravity gradiometry and experiments like Grace are shared, indicating ongoing interest in the field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of interest and skepticism regarding the practical applications and sensitivity of the Forward mass detector. There is no consensus on its effectiveness or the implications of its theoretical basis, as some participants raise concerns while others highlight its uses.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the device's applications and sensitivity depend on specific definitions and assumptions about gravitational measurements and the technology's operational parameters. The discussion includes references to various experiments and theoretical frameworks without resolving the complexities involved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in gravitational physics, experimental detection methods, and applications in geophysics or engineering may find this discussion relevant.

Bob Walance
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In a response by Pervect to another topic, he mentioned a device called a Forward mass detector, named after its inventor Dr. Robert Forward.

It's an interesting device with the claim that it can detect small gradients in the curvature of spacetime.

I couldn't find any info regarding someone that has built one, but I might just give it a try. Maybe I'll see if Jodi Foster wants to take a ride in it. ;-D

He passed away in 2002. Here's a link to his website:

http://www.robertforward.com/

Also, I created a pdf of the patent for the detector (U.S. patent 3,273,397), but it's larger than this forum will allow to be posted (the pdf is 1.6MB). If anyone wants it they can email me at bwalance(at)roadrunner.com

I have attached a couple of pics from his book showing the detector.

Thanks for the tip, Pervect.

Bob Walance
 

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Interesting, this reminds me of the experiments to detect Gravitational Waves, postulated by General Relativity. While his idea is of sound basis (from a theoretical standpoint), I think that the size would make it insensitive to any but very large changes in the static field. The gravitational wave detector at Stanford (I may be incorrect about the University, this hasn't been my study for quite awhile) is nearly 2km in length and operates, approximately, by the same principles. To date, nothing has been detected by the Stanford team.
 
Actually, this device is used quite often to map out gravitational inhomogeneities of the earth. Since it actually measures a static curvature (it's called a gravity gradiometer for a reason), it's best suited to measuring large, slow changes. A practical use is to measure the gravitational multipole moments of the Earth, and thus get the subsurface structure; the oil industry uses this in a fairly serious way. In a 1970 prototype, the sensitivity was about "Riemann curvature produced by a two-bilometer high mountain, idealized as a two-kilometer high cub, at a distance of 15km." (Gravitation, MTW, Box 16.5).

Seriously people, MTW is one of the best physics books ever made, by some of the best physicists to grace the earth. It's big, and it needs re-reading to understand the logic (which is sometimes fragmented by the book's need to cater to differing levels of mathematical sophistication). But I've yet to see a problem that people have raised, on GR or related subjects, which isn't covered by the book.
 
I like MTW too.

A quick google for gravity gradiometry (optionally with oil) also gives a lot of information. One very interesting paper is

http://esto.nasa.gov/conferences/ESTC2006/papers/b4p1.pdf

The Grace experiment is another interesting experiment being done.

There's a gadget called http://www.superconductorweek.com/pr/0106hgf/arkex1.htm that's interesting as well, but I haven't been able to find out much about how it operates (it may be proprietary) .
 
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