Finding error margin when one term is 0

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Chen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Error Margin Term
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating error margins in experimental measurements, particularly when one of the expected values is zero. Participants explore the implications of measuring a non-zero value when the expected value is zero, especially in the context of momentum conservation in elastic collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where the expected value for gravitational acceleration is 9.8 m/s², but the measured value is 9.9 m/s², leading to a conventional error calculation.
  • Another participant questions whether the measurement of zero is valid or if it involves comparing two non-zero lengths that should be equal.
  • A participant presents a specific experimental context involving conservation of momentum, stating that the total momentum in the Y axis should equal zero, but after a collision, the measured momentum is 0.1, prompting a question about the error percentage.
  • One response asserts that the error percentage in this case is undefined due to the expected value being zero.
  • Another participant suggests calculating the error based on the measured values (6 and -5.9), proposing two different approaches for error calculation depending on which value is deemed more accurate.
  • A later reply recommends computing the error for each measured value and suggests using either root mean square error or maximum error for the final computation, noting that the error could exceed the final result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to handle error calculations when one term is zero, with some suggesting specific methods while others highlight the undefined nature of the error in such cases. No consensus is reached on a definitive approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not clarify the assumptions behind their measurements or the definitions of error they are using, leaving some aspects of the discussion unresolved.

Chen
Messages
976
Reaction score
1
In our labs we often need to find the error percent between the expected value and the measured value. So if we expected to get a value of 9.8 m/s2 for g but got 9.9 m/s2 instead, we say that the error was (9.9 - 9.8)/9.8 % = 1.02%. But what happens if we expect a value of 0 for something, and measure 1cm instead?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Chen,

Are you really measuring something whose correct length is zero, or are you measuring two non-zero lengths that are supposed to be the same?
 
It is an experiment about conservation of momentum and energy in an elastic collision. The original momentum in the Y axis is 0, so the total momentum in that axis after the collision must also equal 0. Dropping the units for a second, let's say that the momentum in the Y axis after collision is (6) + (-5.9) = 0.1. What's the error percent then? :smile:
 
Undefined, that's what.
 
Chen said:
It is an experiment about conservation of momentum and energy in an elastic collision. The original momentum in the Y axis is 0, so the total momentum in that axis after the collision must also equal 0. Dropping the units for a second, let's say that the momentum in the Y axis after collision is (6) + (-5.9) = 0.1. What's the error percent then? :smile:

How about .1/6 or .1/5.9 depending on whether 6 or 5.9 is more likely to be correct?
 
Compute the error in each of your measured values (.6) (.59) Then compute either a room mean square error or just use the Max error for the error of the final computation. It may be that your error will be larger then your final result. In which case you can claim to have a correct measuement within your error.

[tex]\mbox{rms} = \sqrt {{ \Delta x_1 }^2 + {\Delta x_2}^2}[/tex]
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
4K