How Do You Find Velocity When Acceleration Is Not Constant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding velocity in planetary motion when acceleration is not constant. Participants explore the mathematical approaches necessary to address the complexities of changing acceleration due to gravitational forces, particularly focusing on the role of calculus and differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to find changes in velocity and time in relation to distance when acceleration is described by the equation a=GM/x^2, noting that traditional equations like vf=vi+at are not applicable when acceleration is variable.
  • Another participant suggests that calculus is the solution, stating that velocity can be derived as the integral of acceleration.
  • A different participant introduces the need to solve coupled differential equations for two-dimensional planetary motion, providing specific equations for acceleration in terms of position.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the relationship between the equations and the variables involved, as well as how to solve the coupled differential equations, expressing some uncertainty about the calculus involved.
  • Another participant explains that solving differential equations yields functions for x(t) and y(t), which can be used to derive velocity components. They mention the use of numerical methods and computer software for practical calculations.
  • A later reply reflects on the participant's own approach using a program that updates calculations for acceleration, velocity, and position in small increments, comparing it to Euler's method and questioning the accuracy of this approach versus traditional equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem, with no consensus on the best method for calculating velocity under non-constant acceleration. Some participants agree on the necessity of calculus and differential equations, while others remain uncertain about the specifics of solving these equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the problem, including the need for numerical methods and the potential differences in results when using various approaches to calculate velocity and acceleration.

an emu
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In planetary motion, how do you find change in velocity and change in time in relation to a change in distance? (a=GM/x^2)
since you cannot simply use an equation like vf=vi+at, unless "a" is constant, how do you do it?
 
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an emu said:
In planetary motion, how do you find change in velocity and change in time in relation to a change in distance? (a=GM/x^2)
since you cannot simply use an equation like vf=vi+at, unless "a" is constant, how do you do it?

It's called "calculus" and was indeed the mathematical problem that Newton needed to solve before he could formulate his mechanics.

velocity is the integral of the acceleration.
 
an emu said:
In planetary motion, how do you find change in velocity and change in time in relation to a change in distance? (a=GM/x^2)

Since planetary motion is two-dimensional (actually three-dimensional, but the orbit is confined to a plane if we're dealing with only one planet at a time, and neglecting perturbations from the other planets), you have to solve a pair of coupled differential equations:

[tex]\frac{d^2 x}{dt^2} = \frac{GMx}{(x^2 + y^2)^{3/2}}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d^2 y}{dt^2} = \frac{GMy}{(x^2 + y^2)^{3/2}}[/tex]
 
Alright, let me make sure I understand that, since I don't know much calculus. Are the equations relating acceleration at distance x and distance y? Also, how do you exactly go about solving the coupled differential equations? It might be a bit over my head right now, but thanks anyways for your help.
 
Do you know about vectors yet?

When you solve differential equations, you get x(t) and y(t), that is, formulas (or tables) for x and y at time t. The first derivatives dx/dt and dy/dt give you the x and y components of the velocity at time t. The second derivatives [itex]d^2 x / dt^2[/itex] and [itex]d^2 y / dt^2[/itex] give you the x and y components of the acceleration.

In practice, people usually solve differential equations like this using computer software. You give it the initial values of x and y at t = 0, and it calculates a table of x and y at later times. It calculates each point based on the results for the preceding point, going one step at a time. There are various methods (algorithms) for doing the calculation, with different combinations of simplicity, speed and accuracy: Euler's method, Runge-Kutta methods, etc. You typically learn the details in a numerical-methods course.
 
Ok that makes a lot of sense, but it means that I am kind of back where I started hehe. I have a program updating calculations for a, v, x, and y in small increments, assuming that a is constant for a tiny amount of time, which seems more or less like Euler's method. I was wondering how exact my answer would be. Would evaluating the differentials produce a different result than if i simply used a=GM/r^2, vf=vi+at, and dx=vit+1/2at^2 to calculate the new values at every time increment?
 

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