About Fermi energy and Fermi temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of Fermi energy and Fermi temperature within the context of quantum statistical mechanics. Participants explore the implications of these concepts, their relationship to temperature, and their relevance in dense systems such as metals. The conversation touches on theoretical interpretations and potential applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Fermi temperature is a measure related to the Fermi energy, but question whether it accounts for averages of particles below the Fermi energy.
  • Others argue that temperature is a property of a distribution of energies rather than individual particles, suggesting that all Fermions can be at the same temperature simultaneously.
  • A participant expresses confusion about visualizing Fermi temperature in the context of Pauli's exclusion principle, which restricts Fermions from occupying the same quantum state.
  • Some participants suggest that Fermi temperature is a conceptual tool that relates to Fermi energy and does not reflect the actual physical temperature of electrons.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of Fermi pressure in dense systems, with questions about its ability to drive waves or oscillations due to electronic or ionic motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of Fermi temperature, its relationship to actual temperature, and its implications in physical systems. There is no consensus on these points, and multiple competing interpretations are present.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of quantum statistical mechanics and the definitions of temperature and energy distributions. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding these concepts.

shabbir
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In classical statistical mechanics, temperature of a system is the measure of its average kinetic energy. In quantum statistical mechanics, Fermi energy corresponds to last filled level at absolute zero and corresponding temperature is the Fermi temperature. Is the Fermi temperature also take some averages into account? What about the temperature of the particles having energy below Fermi energy? Anyone to share me in this regard will be appreciated.
 
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All the particles are at the same temperature, regardless of their energy. Temperature is a property of a distribution of energies of particles, not a single particle.

Now, once you look at the Fermi-Dirac distribution, and study it for a while, you notice that the combination \frac{E_f}{k_B} is important, and this has the right units to be called a temperature. It turns out that the system behaves more and more differently beyond that temperature.
 
It means all the Fermions may be at the same temperature simultanously, as it is clear. And Fermi temperature is a purely quantum mechanical concept. So can we say that the Fermi temperature corresponds to ensemble of Fermions in many particle degerate Fermi system? I am bit confused in the sense that Pauli's principle restrict two Fermions to be in the same quantum state, and "temperature" is an average phenomenon, so how to visualize the Fermi temperature?
 
lbrits said:
All the particles are at the same temperature, regardless of their energy. Temperature is a property of a distribution of energies of particles, not a single particle.

Now, once you look at the Fermi-Dirac distribution, and study it for a while, you notice that the combination \frac{E_f}{k_B} is important, and this has the right units to be called a temperature. It turns out that the system behaves more and more differently beyond that temperature.
It means all the Fermions may be at the same temperature simultanously, as it is clear. And Fermi temperature is a purely quantum mechanical concept. So can we say that the Fermi temperature corresponds to ensemble of Fermions in many particle degerate Fermi system? I am bit confused in the sense that Pauli's principle restrict two Fermions to be in the same quantum state, and "temperature" is an average phenomenon, so how to visualize the Fermi temperature? Can many Fermions (e.g., electrons/positrons) in a many-particle system be at same "Fermi temperature"?
 
Hi, I just learned this concept of fermi sphere a few months ago as well. What I understand from the term "fermi termperature" is that it is just another way of expressing the fermi energy. It is a purely fictional concept and it just borrows the term "temperature" because it has a linear relationship with Energy:

EF = kB TF

which is similar to the thermodynamics equation

E = n kB T

I don't think it has anything to do with the real physical temperature of the electron itself.
 
Thanks. But one more thing. The Fermi energy and consequently the Fermi temperature is very large in dense systems e.g. electrons in metals. So At some temperature say 400K, the Fermi pressure is very large as compared with thermal pressure. Can this Fermi pressure drive waves/oscillations due to electronic or ionic motion?
 
TheWye said:
Hi, I just learned this concept of fermi sphere a few months ago as well. What I understand from the term "fermi termperature" is that it is just another way of expressing the fermi energy. It is a purely fictional concept and it just borrows the term "temperature" because it has a linear relationship with Energy:

EF = kB TF

which is similar to the thermodynamics equation

E = n kB T

I don't think it has anything to do with the real physical temperature of the electron itself.

Thanks. But one more thing. The Fermi energy and consequently the Fermi temperature is very large in dense systems e.g. electrons in metals. So for some thermal energy say 0.1eV, the Fermi pressure is still very large as compared with thermal pressure. Can this Fermi pressure drive waves/oscillations due to electronic or ionic motion in a Fermi gas of electrons?
 

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