can radiation be seen

roy2008

if someone accidentally came into contact with radioactive materials-or a container of radioactive material and they became contaminated-would they be able to see the contamination on their skin? I guess what Imsaying is if I don't see a metal or powder on my hands for example, then does that mean I have not been contaminated? would even an unseen fleck of radioactive dust harm people?

Mech_Engineer

Almost all inadvertant radiation contamination that results in a worker taking the radioactive material home is because they could not see it and didn't check with a detector.

In short, it is very unlikely your would be able to visibly see if you have been contaminated, the only sure-fire way to test is with a radiation detector. And yes, even very small amounts of radioactive material can be harmful, especially if ingested.

gmax137

Mech Engineer said
"Almost all inadvertant radiation contamination that results in a worker taking the radioactive material home is because they could not see it and didn't check with a detector."

Do you have any documented cases of this? What sort of facilities was the worker from? I've been working in nuclear power plants for a long time and I don't think I have ever heard of anyone doing this. Seems unlikely, especially with the portal monitors now in use (the whole point of these devices is to eliminate sloppy frisking). And if it did happen, how was it eventually discovered?

russ_watters

Where do you work? Is it even possible for you to be contaminated? Potentially yes, but where would someone get something like that?

Unless you work in a place that provides you with a radiation exposure badge, you don't have a real chance of being contaminated.

Since you realize your fear is irrational, you should know that the answer to most of your questions is pretty much the same....

russ_watters

Heck, radon was discovered when someone inadvertently brought it to work!

Mech_Engineer

Such accidents do rarely happen in laboratory settings (universities, national labs, private businesses) when people get lazy or indifferent. I work for a Department of Energy contractor, and workers receive extensive training on this subject if working in radiation areas.

I'm not sure that I'm allowed to point to specific incidents, but the Nuclear Regulatory Commission keeps publically-available "Event Notification Reports" on its website which you could look through if you're curious.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-co...-status/event/

QuantumPion

Astronauts on the moon reported seeing flashes in their eyes, even with their eye lids closed. This was caused by high-energy cosmic radiation directly activating the chemical receptors or neurons in the eye.

If you were contaminated with a hot particle (a tiny but very radioactive mote of dust, common in some areas of nuclear power plants) on your skin, the area of skin may become red and irritated.

Photography film exposed to radiation will show spots when developed (this was how radiation was originally discovered!)

Also, digital video cameras exposed to high levels of radiation will display spots that looks like static or white noise (similar effect to astronauts, the radiation causes a voltage signal on the image sensor).

Finally, you can directly see the effect of radiation if you make your own cloud chamber. A cloud chamber is a sealed box filled with super-saturated alcohol vapor if I recall correctly. When a high energy charged particle passes through, it ionizes the alcohol molecules in its path, causing them to condensate and leave a visible trail.

Oh yes, I forgot the most striking example! Cerenkov light, which causes nuclear reactors in water to glow blue, is caused by beta particles (high energy radiation) passing through water.

vanesch

The point is, if you SEE Cherenkov radiation being given off by, say, your elbow, then I think the best thing you can do is quickly subscribe to a life insurance for your family... and not go home

Naty1

Typical radioactivity is alpha, beta and gamma radiation..there are others. A sheet of paper will stop the first, a sheet of metal the second, and some thickness of lead to stop the most potentent gamma. It would be unusual to see any radioactive material itself, but in the fallout from a nuclear bomb for example, radioactive material would be mixed in dust, the dust likely radioactive as well, and in those quantities likely visible. Such dust contamination on the skin can be mostly washed/rinsed off and clothes disposed....Inhaled radioactivity is potentially much more dangerous as there is no practical way to eliminate it from the body.

If you wear a radiation badge outdoors in sunlight, radioactivity can be recorded...An example of nuclear power plant workers being contaminated would be Chernoyble...Cooling water from a nuclear power plant might also become radioac tive...anybody know??...so if that leaked and somebody got wet, it would be visible in a sense..

The point is contamination has no visible signs...a spec of dust lands on you in a nuclear environment, you can't tell by "feel" or other senses if its dangerous or not...that depends in part of the strongth and half life of the material...

In nuclear medicene, for example, workers must be very careful, yet patients can be injected becuase the level of radiation is low and the half life just a some hours so in a week there is barely evidence.

Oh, and don't forget, visible light is radiation, and so is all electromagnetic radiation fopr that matter...

vanesch

I thought the OP wanted to know if we could see radioactive phenomena themselves, not just the stuff that is radioactive. After all, you can see a laboratory source, so you "see" the source, right ? But you don't see the radiation. By the time you see it, you're already long deadly irradiated, because the levels of radiation that are necessary to produce clearly visible luminous effects are very high.

Mmm, if the sunlight affects your badge, then that's probably an error of your badge. Sunlight is non-ionising radiation for most part.

Again, you would see the material manifestation of what might (or might not) be a radioactive source, but you wouldn't see the radioactive phenomena themselves. If nobody told you it was contaminated water, by just looking at it you wouldn't see the difference with just ordinary water.

However, radioactive phenomena are easily detected with instruments. Much more so than, say, biological contamination.

mgb_phys

The OP has several other posts where they explain a phobia about being in contact with radioactive sources - they were asking if they can see if something is contaminated, presumably by some sort of glow.

theallknower

well,I gues that having so many eruptions on your skin that you allmost look skinless is a prety visible efect...not to mention other signs like hemoragia...but this is at a relative high energy radiation...for a few thousand dolars you can buy yourself a chemestry elemental set,including a bit of uranium...I gues that dosn't hurt at all,because it comes with protection

theallknower

why would you ingest something radioactive?
I don't see ANY scenario when someone ingests an uranium pill or contaminated water...exept mabey for suicids

russ_watters

Once it's on your skin, it can easily get to your nose or mouth.

Xnn

[QUOTE=Naty1;1920010]

In nuclear medicene, for example, workers must be very careful, yet patients can be injected becuase the level of radiation is low and the half life just a some hours so in a week there is barely evidence.[QUOTE]

Actually, I know a guy that received a medical injection and was told by the medical authorities that it was short lived and would be gone in a few days. Very re-assuring.

We both work at a Nuclear plant, and go thru radiation detector portals every day.
No suprise he sets it off on the first day back to work.

A week later and he is still setting off the portal monitors.

A month later and he is still setting off the portal monitors.

2 months later and he is still setting off the portal monitors.

It wasn't until 3 months, that he was able to exit without setting them off!

Don't remember the isotope, but it was some type of radioactive vitamin (B3 maybe).

mgb_phys

Probably more a testament to how sensitive you can make radiation detectors.

It's like the media scare stories about finding contamination of chemical X in drinking water - that come out every time the water monitoring dept gets a new instrument!

Morbius

roy2008,

First - radioactivity is NOT "contagious" - just because you come in contact with radioactive material
doesn't mean that YOU become radioactive. You don't get "contaminated" just because you get "near"
some radioactive material.

Now if; as you postulate above; there is a radioactive powder that you come in contact with - and
some of that powder STICKS to you - THEN you are "contaminated" to the extent that you now have
some powder on you and that powder is radioactive - you are now radioactive.

However, I don't know ANY nuclear lab or facility that would EVER allow what you state above to
happen. For example, there are cases where radioactive material is handled in powdered form - but
NEVER just out in the open. Such an operation will take place ONLY in a "glove box":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glovebox.jpg

The inside of the box is isolated from the rest of the room. The gloves are hanging out the front
"inside out". When a worker is going to use the glove box - they put their hands in the gloves and
turn them right side out - so their gloved hands and arms are within the box - and they can safely
handle radioactive powders like Plutonium for instance. The radiation from the Plutonium is alpha
radiation that can't penetrate the gloves. The outside of the gloves may get Plutonium powder on them;
but your hands are on the inside of the glove - so you don't pick up any of the powder.

If you are going to handle a substance that emits more penetrating radiation, like gamma; then that
would be done in a "hot cell" with "master-slave" manipulators:

http://www.centres.com/nuclear/manip/models/modghd.htm

The worker holds a the controls in their hands - and the motions of the operator's hands are mimicked
by the "claw" on the other end of the manipulator. One side of the manipulator goes inside the "hot cell"
with the radioactive material - and the operator's side is outside the "hot cell" where the operator can be
shielded from the radiation by the shielding walls of the cell as in the drawing under the word "Dimensions"
in the above link. The operator looks in through a thick glass window as seen in the center of the
shield wall.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist