Question about the physics of fluttering flags

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of a flag during a Chinese space walk as seen in a video, specifically whether its fluttering is indicative of movement in a fluid medium like water or in a vacuum. Participants explore the implications of the flag's motion in relation to conspiracy theories about the authenticity of the space walk.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the flag's motion resembles that of a semi-rigid body rather than a fluid, suggesting it does not behave as it would in water.
  • Others propose that the flag's behavior is consistent with being in a fluid, questioning the conditions under which it was filmed.
  • A participant mentions the possibility of filming slow movements and playing them back at higher speeds to create the observed effect.
  • There are claims regarding a piece of tape seen in the video, with some asserting it behaves like a bubble rather than a small object, raising questions about the forces acting on it in a zero-gravity environment.
  • Some participants suggest that residual air in the airlock could explain the flag's motion, while others challenge this explanation by questioning the trajectory of the tape.
  • Concerns are raised about the credibility of conspiracy theories surrounding the authenticity of space walks, with some participants expressing skepticism about the claims of faking.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the flag's behavior and the implications for the authenticity of the space walk. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on whether the flag's motion indicates it was filmed in water or in a vacuum.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on interpretations of visual evidence from the video, and there are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions of the filming and the nature of the forces acting on the flag and tape.

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At the 33 second mark of this video of the Chinese space walk the astronaut moves a flag quickly from right to left.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fWw0ilbuZuk

The flag flutters as it moves. The purpose of the YouTube video was to prove the Chinese space walks were faked in a water tank.

I want to know whether the flag is behaving the way it would in water, or in a vacuum. My tendency is to think the flag is behaving the way it would in water. Can anybody clear this up?
 
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The flag isn't fluttering it is moving how a semi rigid body (eg thick plastic) wouldmove if you shake it.
In fact it proves it isn't in a fluid - when he moves it backward it is still curved in the same direction - so it can't be moving through anything with resistance.

Anyway, they wouldn't fake it in a water tank -they would use the same anti-gravity system from the Roswell spaceship that NASA uses to fake all it's space walks.
 
What about the alleged bubble that is discussed in this video?

 
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It's a bit of tape from the suit. It's not spherical and it appears to accelarate as it moves which means it is going toward the camera rather than straight up.

I assume you are looking for arguments to rebute the conspiracy claims?
If you were going to fake it you could do it all in CGI rather than a water tank.
A number of neighbouring countries watch this airspace for ballistic launch tracks - do you think there was no launch but USA, Japan, Russia, India, N. Korea are all part of some conspiracy to suppress that?
 
I assume you are looking for arguments to rebute the conspiracy claims?
Actually, I think it was faked in water. I'm having a debate with someone on another forum and I'm looking for information.

I started talking about the Chinese space walk on page 22 of this thread in post #527.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/51606/1/

Would you like to join in?


The flag isn't fluttering it is moving how a semi rigid body (eg thick plastic) wouldmove if you shake it.
It doesn't look to me like he's shaking it. It looks to me like he's simply pulling it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fWw0ilbuZuk


In fact it proves it isn't in a fluid - when he moves it backward it is still curved in the same direction - so it can't be moving through anything with resistance.
Couldn't that be faked by filming very slow movements and then playing it back at more than double speed?
 
Water is far too dense and viscous for the flag to flap around like that. I see no reason to believe it is a fake.
 
It's a bit of tape from the suit.
It doesn't follow a straight trajectory the way a bit of tape would. It wants to go straight up and moves along the visor of the helmet until it is able to go straight up at the exact point a bubble would. The behavior is totally consistent with that of a bubble and inconsistent with that of a small object. Also, if it is a small piece of tape, what is the force that makes it start moving in zero-gravity? I can't identify any force making it move except what would make a bubble move in water.

 
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They are coming out of the airlock, are they not? A little bit of residual air in the airlock, leaking out of hoses, trapped in the folds of the spacesuit, etc., would explain that.

What you have here is nowhere near enough to prove your claim.
 
First we have pseudoscientific claim of NASA faking moon landing - of which the movement of the flag was one of the "reasons" provided - now the Chinese is faking as well?
 
  • #10
They are coming out of the airlock, are they not? A little bit of residual air in the airlock, leaking out of hoses, trapped in the folds of the spacesuit, etc., would explain that.
How do you explain the trajectory? Wouldn't it have gone straight instead of sliding along the visor and then going straight up the way a bubble would have done?

Also, the fluttering of the flag at the 33 second mark of this clip is consistent with its being in water.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fWw0ilbuZuk

If you look at the astronaut's arm as he moves the flag quickly from right to left he is not shaking it as was said in post #2.

First we have pseudoscientific claim of NASA faking moon landing - of which the movement of the flag was one of the "reasons" provided - now the Chinese is faking as well?
The evidence shows that both the Apollo moon landings and the Chinese space walks were faked.

There's a partial summary of evidence that the Apollo missions were faked in post #1 of this thread on the "Loose Change" forum.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/51606/1/

Why don't you come join in the debate there?
 
  • #11
We don't discuss conspiracy theories.
 

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