How much is space actually bent by mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the bending of space by mass, specifically seeking a formula that quantifies this effect. Participants explore the relationship between mass and the curvature of space, with a focus on light rays passing near massive objects. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a formula that describes how much space is bent by mass, particularly for calculating the length between two points with a mass in between.
  • Another participant asserts that measuring lengths requires a metric, which involves tensors, indicating a limitation in providing a non-tensor answer.
  • A participant provides a formula for the angle of light bending due to a spherical mass, specifically stating that the angle in radians is given by \(\frac{4GM}{c^2R}\), where \(M\) is the mass and \(R\) is the distance from the mass.
  • This participant illustrates the formula with an example involving the Sun, explaining how to calculate the bending angle for light passing at a distance from the Sun's center.
  • A later reply humorously points out a potential issue with the example distance given, noting the actual size of the Sun.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude, confirming that the provided formula meets their needs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the possibility of a non-tensor formula for measuring space bending, and there are differing views on the practical application of the provided formula. The discussion includes both agreement on the usefulness of the formula and a humorous correction regarding the example distance.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on specific definitions and the limitations of providing non-tensor approaches to the problem of space bending. There are unresolved aspects regarding the applicability of the formula in different contexts.

techwonder
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Is there a formula that readily says how much space is bent? I'm thinking of a formula that for example would give the length from A to B when there is a mass in line-of-sight between A and B.

What is that (or similar) formula?

I'd prefer a non-tensor answer, if possible ...

Thanks is advance
 
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The only way to measure lengths involves a metric, which is a tensor.

- Warren
 
techwonder said:
Is there a formula that readily says how much space is bent?

You want a simple formula that gives some idea of how much a given mass will bend space.
A partial answer is to assume there is a spherical mass M and a lightray that passes within a distance R (of the center) of the object. then there is an extremely simple formula that tells the ANGLE the ray is bent by the thing's gravity. Perhaps you already know that formula and want something fancier. but if not it certainly gives some idea of the size of the geometrical effect of a concentration of matter


the angle in radians is

[tex]\frac{4GM}{c^2R}[/tex]

for the sun the quantity

[tex]\frac{4GM}{c^2}[/tex]

is 6 kilometers, so if a ray of light passes 6,000,000 km from sun center
then it will be bent by an angle of 6/6,000,000 radians
or 1/1,000,000 of a radian.

you can plug in different masses for M, like mass of a galaxy or mass of the Earth, and see what angles light is bent

it gives a way of appreciating how very very slight the effect on the geometry of spacetime is, from even real hefty concentrations of matter

if you keep asking, chroot will probably tell you more of the story, but this is at least a start

[edit: thanks Labguy! I have edited this to conform with Labguy's pointer, originally I had R an order of magnitude smaller]
 
Last edited:
so if a ray of light passes 600,000 km from sun center
That would be hard to do since the diameter of ther sun is ~1,390, 000 km, ~695,000 km Radius... :zzz:
 
Thanks a lot!

the formula given is exactly what I looked for
 

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