Can Gravity Escape a Black Hole Faster Than Light?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravity in relation to black holes and the speed at which gravitational effects propagate compared to the speed of light. Participants explore theoretical implications, experimental suggestions, and historical context regarding general relativity and gravity's behavior in space-time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that gravity must reach an observer before light does, implying that gravity could be faster than light under certain conditions.
  • Another participant argues that gravity propagates at the speed of light, as described by general relativity, and that both gravity and light move according to the local space-time structure.
  • A question is posed regarding potential experiments that could differentiate between the speed of light and the speed of gravity.
  • One participant reflects on the historical development of general relativity, emphasizing that it established gravity's propagation speed as limited to that of light.
  • Another participant acknowledges the validity of general relativity while suggesting that the speed of gravity could be tested more directly, despite existing indirect confirmations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether gravity can propagate faster than light, with some asserting it is limited to the speed of light while others propose scenarios where this might not hold. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the nature of gravity and light, as well as the definitions of speed in the context of general relativity. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications or the experimental feasibility of proposed tests.

Reflector
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Take two objects like the Earth and the sun. Before light can reach the Earth from the sun the distance between them would need to be defined. Gravity is what defines this distance, right? So gravity would have to get here first before the light did. The only way this happens is that the speed of light is shifted less than what it is to the stationary Earth observer. However light is actually faster than this speed once Earth starts moving. If gravity was not faster than light how could it escape from a black hole?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
gravity is/curves space-time. Whatever gravitational effect it propagates at c - at least we think so. Light moves "on" space-time. It does not need to be space-time "emitted" together with the light, it is space-time as it is at the time light passes that particular point.

Light and gravity does not move with a purpose they move according to the local space-time and, for the earth-sun system, eventually reaches us ... or doesn't as it might turn out (could pass by, right!?)
 
What sort of experiment could you suggest that would test, in principle, the difference between c and 'the speed of gravity'?
 
The whole point of general relativity was when Einstein found out that Special Relativity meant that gravity would be limited to the speed of light. This is when Einstein realized that Newton's Universal Theory of Gravitation. The main point is finally we had an idea of what gravity was... it being warps in space time. To see how this idea developed you might want to check out this http://www.quantumninja.com/toe/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1 I wrote. I would like to type a more detailed response but i got to get some sleep. I have ACT's tomorrow
 
GR is a really cool theory, and has been tested (in some domains) quite well.

However, one 'prediction' - that the 'speed of gravity' is c - could perhaps be tested more directly* or more stingently; how?

*it's already been 'tested' indirectly; IIRC the 'relativity' corrections to celestial mechanics (for example) would be out of kilter with what we actually observe if the speed of gravity were not c.

(BTW, in the article, I think Tom means 'eluded', not 'illumed' :smile: )
 
well thanks for reading it lol I will go fix that now :/
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
10K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
4K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K