Are viruses life?

~~SpaceGuy50~~ · Jun6-09, 10:34 PM

Are viruses life?

**Ygggdrasil** · Jun6-09, 10:43 PM

It depends on how you define life (which surprisingly is not very well defined).

**DaveC426913** · Jun6-09, 11:10 PM

What are your thoughts on the matter?

**symbolipoint** · Jun7-09, 12:43 AM

Do they perform metabolism, even if using a hosts organisms cells to do so?
Are virii irritable?
Can they reproduce?

If yes to all of those, then virus seems to be life.

**DaveC426913** · Jun7-09, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by symbolipoint

Are virii irritable?

As a discrete unit, no.

Originally Posted by scymbolipoint

Can they reproduce?

As a discrete unit, no.

Virii corrupt living cells. Arguably, it is the living cells that is doing the irritation and reproduction.

**Moridin** · Jun7-09, 11:36 AM

One of the main issues with discussions whether viruses are living or not, is that we are trying to establish a discontinuous, essentialist barrier on what is most probably a continuous transition. None of the proteins, carbohydrates or lipids in your body are alive, however, in certain configurations together with other building blocks, something we call life emerge on a higher level of analysis (but of course completely explicable from these basic building blocks; no particular elan vital or life force).

**mgb_phys** · Jun7-09, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

As a discrete unit, no.
Virii corrupt living cells. Arguably, it is the living cells that is doing the irritation and reproduction.

Virii have inheritable traits that they pass on to their offspring so they are alive.
They can't reproduce without a host cell but lots of species can't reproduce without a host body, from tape worms to cuckoos.

**DaveC426913** · Jun7-09, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by mgb_phys

Virii have inheritable traits that they pass on to their offspring so they are alive.

Logical phallacy: hasty conclusion. That is not the only criteria for life.
[/quote]

**granpa** · Jun7-09, 11:47 PM

all living systems depend on some external factors beyond their control for survival. we depend on the sun for energy. are we therefore not really alive?

reproduction and the ability to evolve are the 2 most basic necessities for life. but like all categories, inclusion within the category 'living' is not all or nothing. see the wikipedia article on 'fuzzy logic' for more on that idea.

**CRGreathouse** · Jun8-09, 12:41 AM

I'd like to see some examples of creatures that can't reproduce on their own -- I'm sure there are some corner cases. That might be an illuminating comparison.

Grammar nazi alert:
1 virus, 2 viruses; 1 criterion, 2 criteria.

**cesiumfrog** · Jun8-09, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

Logical phallacy

Whatever you say, Freud.

**Moridin** · Jun8-09, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by granpa

all living systems depend on some external factors beyond their control for survival. we depend on the sun for energy. are we therefore not really alive?

reproduction and the ability to evolve are the 2 most basic necessities for life. but like all categories, inclusion within the category 'living' is not all or nothing. see the wikipedia article on 'fuzzy logic' for more on that idea.

Hard to evolve if you cannot reproduce.

**DaveC426913** · Jun8-09, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by cesiumfrog

Whatever you say, Freud.

**DaveC426913** · Jun8-09, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

I'd like to see some examples of creatures that can't reproduce on their own -- I'm sure there are some corner cases. That might be an illuminating comparison.

Grammar nazi alert:
1 virus, 2 viruses; 1 criterion, 2 criteria.

Then you don't believe in:
1 forum, 2 fora
1 vox, 2 voxen

**Andy Resnick** · Jun8-09, 01:32 PM

1 mongoose, 2 mongooses
1 axis, 2 axes

This is fun!

**philnow** · Jun8-09, 05:22 PM

Every living this is dependent on something, as has been said. I don't think that virii require host cellular machinery is sufficient to rule out virii are "alive".

Really, this could all be straightened out if we had a better definition of life.