Differentiating ln x from first principles

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    Differentiating Ln
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around differentiating the natural logarithm function, y = ln x, from first principles, specifically using the definition of the Euler number. Participants explore various methods of differentiation and clarify steps in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines two methods for differentiating y = ln x, both arriving at the derivative of 1/x but not incorporating the definition of the Euler number.
  • Another participant questions the transition in the first method, specifically how the expression ln(x+h) - ln(x) simplifies to ln((x+h)/x), suggesting a misunderstanding of logarithmic properties.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of showing the derivative of e^x from first principles, stating that the limit lim(h->0) (e^h - 1)/h must equal 1.
  • Another participant provides a detailed calculation for differentiating e^x, linking it to the definition of the Euler number and suggesting that this might relate to the original problem.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation used in the logarithmic expressions, with one participant correcting the interpretation of ln(x+h/x) to ln((x+h)/x).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods used for differentiation and the interpretation of logarithmic properties. There is no consensus on a single method or approach to incorporate the definition of the Euler number into the differentiation process.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight missing assumptions in the calculations and the need for clarity in the application of logarithmic laws. The discussion also reflects unresolved steps in the differentiation process and varying interpretations of the mathematical expressions involved.

Imperial
Hi all.

For any of you who have done differential calculus, I need a little help with a problem involving natural logarithms.

The question asks to differentiate y = ln x from first principles . It says "use the definition of the Euler number, namely e = lim(n->inf.) (1+1/n)^n.".
First principles means f'(x) = lim(h->0) [f(x+h) - f(x)] / h (this is the first thing we learned in calculus).

I so far managed two different methods:
Method 1. y = ln x
therefore e^y = x
dx/dy = e^y.
Since dx/dy * dy/dx = 1
1/(dx/dy) = dy/dx.
= 1/e^y
= 1/x.

Method 2. y = ln x
f(x) = ln x
f(x+h) = ln (x+h)
f'(x) = lim(h->0) [ln (x+h) - ln x] / h
= lim(h->0) ln (x+h/x) / h
= lim(h->0) 1/h * ln(1+h/x)
Since lim(h->0) ln(1+h/x) -> h/x where h != 0,
f'(x) = 1/h * h/x
= 1/x

Both of these methods work and are valid, although I didn't bring the definition of the Euler number into it. I personally have no idea how to do this. Could anyone here who has done a bit of math before please help me with this?

Thanks.
 
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Would you mind telling me how you arrive at
= lim(h->0) ln (x+h/x) / h
= lim(h->0) 1/h * ln(1+h/x)
?
What happened to the first x?

Not to mention:
Since lim(h->0) ln(1+h/x) -> h/x where h != 0
Surely you know that lim(h->0) does NOT depend on h!


Probably what your instructor intends is to use your first calculation: if y= ln(x) then x= e^y . HOWEVER, you cannot assume that the derivative of e^x is e^x: that's where "first principles" comes in.

If y(x)= e^x, then y(x+ h)= e^(x+h) so (y(x+h)- y(x))/h=
(e^(x+h)-e^x)/h= (e^x e^h- e^x)/h= (e^x)((e^h-1)/h).

The derivative of e^x is (lim(h->0)(e^h-1)/h) e^x.

You need to show "from first principles" that

lim(h->0) (e^h-1)/h = 1.
 
The first "x" wasn't lost- remember the logarithm laws:
ln a - ln b = ln(a/b) so my expression ln(x+h) - ln(x) became ln(x+h/x).

As for differentiating e^x, that is easy.
f(x) = e^x
f(x+h) = e^(x+h)
f'(x) = lim(h->0) e^(x+h) - e^(x) / h
= lim(h->0) e^x(e^h - 1) / h
= e^x lim(h->0) e^h - 1 /h
The definition of the Euler number is lim(n->inf.) (1+1/n)^n which can become lim(h->0) (1+h)^1/h.
therefore
f'(x) = e^x lim(h->0) (1+h)^1/h^h - 1 / h
= e^x lim(h->0) 1 + h - 1 /h
= e^x lim(h->0)h/h
= e^x

Although that doesn't really come into it. A previous question in the excercise asked that, and I think that there is probably some other method which needs to be used. Is anyone here familiar with any other methods?
 
Oh, I see now: when you wrote ln(x+h/x) you MEANT ln((x+h)/x)
(although when you wrote ln(1+ h/x) you DIDN'T mean ln((1+h)/x).)
 

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