What Are the Ages of the Children in This Math Puzzle?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Brennen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Challenge
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a math puzzle involving the ages of three children, where the sum of their ages is 23 and the product of their ages is 113 more than the product of their ages from the previous year. Participants explore how to determine the sum of the squares of the children's ages, sharing their experiences and methods used to solve the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants report arriving at the sum of the squares of the children's ages as 259, indicating they found this number through various methods.
  • One participant mentions that they found the ages of the children to be 3, 5, and 15 using a program, but questions how to arrive at this conclusion with the given information.
  • Another participant discusses the reasoning behind the sum of squares being greater than 200, suggesting that the ages must be extremely unequal.
  • Some participants express differing experiences regarding the time taken to solve the problem, with some finding it straightforward while others struggled.
  • There is a humorous exchange about the difficulty of the problem and the pressure of competition, with references to personal experiences during tests.
  • Several participants engage in a secondary puzzle about truth-telling and lying days, which leads to further debate about the interpretation of the question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the sum of the squares being 259, but there is no consensus on the specific ages of the children or the methods to derive them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to solve the initial problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the complexity of the problem and the potential for misinterpretation, particularly in relation to the second puzzle about truth-telling. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the problem and different strategies employed to tackle it.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in mathematical puzzles, problem-solving strategies, and competitive mathematics may find this discussion engaging and informative.

Brennen
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
i recently sat a national mathematics competition and came across this question, which i thought was pretty good. I am posting it here to see how long it takes everybody to figure out. (the question has been wordedly differently)

The sum of three children's ages is 23. The product of their ages is 113 more than the product of their ages this time last year. What is the sum of the squares of the children's ages? (easy after you figure out their ages)

enjoy...
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I got 259.
 
Yeah it is 259. It took me a minute or two less then ten.
 
yep, good work. most of the other people who sat the test moved past it because it would take too long and didn't go back to it. it did take me a little while, probably around 5 minutes, but it was an important question.
 
This actually took me only 5 seconds because I have heard it from my classmates many times, I am bored with it ...:-p
 
lol... would have helped if i had known it going into the test.
 
Brennen said:
i recently sat a national mathematics competition and came across this question, which i thought was pretty good. I am posting it here to see how long it takes everybody to figure out. (the question has been wordedly differently)

The sum of three children's ages is 23. The product of their ages is 113 more than the product of their ages this time last year. What is the sum of the squares of the children's ages? (easy after you figure out their ages)

Much easier if you don't try to figure out their ages.

It took me a couple minutes to find the sum of squares, but I still don't know any of their ages.
 
wow...i did it a weird way then.
 
Brennen said:
lol... would have helped if i had known it going into the test.
Yes, I read it.
I am sorry I didn't mean it was 100% the same as those I have heard, but the fact is that in such exams, people like to give their students a long long long question to make them unable to concentrate on the main thing which in this problem it "sum of the squares of the children's ages", and other things will be irrelevant
You already have x1+x2+x3=23 right ?
But what if you were asked to find out each person's age ? How many minutes will it take you before you jump up and down in happiness "Binga Binga Binga I got it" ? -lol

By the way, you should remember to take heart medicines before stepping into the room. I read your thread about your sm@rtie-ness and I really admire you as always, true.
If you had another heart attack, people should worry about you much more...and that would also bring you bad evaluation then...-lol :-p
 
  • #10
[tex]x+y+z=23[/tex]

[tex]xyz = 113 + (x-1)(y-1)(z-1) = 113+ xyz - xy+yz+zx + x+y+z - 1[/tex]

[tex]So, ~~(xy+yz+zx) = 113 +23 -1 = 135[/tex]

[tex]But,~~(x+y+z)^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 + 2(xy+yz+zx)[/tex]

[tex]Hence,~~x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 23^2 -270 = 259[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #11
lol. i don't have a clue how i figured it out then, but i definitely remember finding the ages before squaring them to find what the question asked for. that heart thing truly stuffed up my calc exam...just really bad timing. btw i don't generally shout 'binga' :P I am more the 'eureka' type :D. just kidding. thanks for the math Gokul. its strange to have someone admire me...that i don't know. thank you though. farewell.
 
  • #12
Brennen said:
lol. i don't have a clue how i figured it out then, but i definitely remember finding the ages before squaring them to find what the question asked for. that heart thing truly stuffed up my calc exam...just really bad timing. btw i don't generally shout 'binga' :P I am more the 'eureka' type :D. just kidding. thanks for the math Gokul. its strange to have someone admire me...that i don't know. thank you though. farewell.
If i didn't do it that way, how could I say I could solve that problem in five seconds ?
It is impossible to deal with this problem in such a short time.
Don't ever say farawell please, whenever you and I come here, we are still able to meet again, that Forune makes us meet...-lol
My bino should have some problems but anyway, you sound fun, like Jimmy-p
 
  • #13
The sum of three children's ages is x. The product of their ages is y more than the product of their ages this time last year. What is the sum of the squares of the children's ages?

x*x + 2(1-x-y)
 
  • #14
LOL, i did this test as well
i i dun it wrong though
i took a guess,
b.185...

Heres another one from the test.
i kinda got confused but friends after told me the answer.
(note: this wasnt hard, just the way it was written, it really confused me, also its not word for word either)

John tells truth Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and Thursday. and lies every other day. Jack tells truth Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. one day both said "YesterdayI Lied". the day they both lied was...
 
Last edited:
  • #15
I hope one of the choices was "none of the above" ...

Hey, davilla, nice to see you back ! Wot's bin up witcha ?
 
  • #16
Layzie_Bone said:
LOL, i did this test as well
John tells truth Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and Thursday. and lies every other day. Jack tells truth Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. one day both said "YesterdayI Lied". the day they both lied was...
It's pretty clear that they don't ever lie on the same day. However, it's also clear that today is Friday, so I suppose that the answer that they're looking for is Thursday.
 
  • #17
nope, the answer is Friday
 
  • #18
Layzie_Bone said:
nope, the answer is Friday
Clearly Jack tells the truth on Friday, therefore Friday cannot be a day that they both lied. As you have written it, the problem asks for the day that both lied ,which does not exist since, on each day of the week at least one of the boys tells the truth. Since the problem refers to both saying, "Yesterday, I lied" it's possible to conclude that the statement is made on Friday, but that isn't what it's asking for. It is, however possible to infer that "the day that they lied" refers to the day that they claim that they lied on which would be Thursday.
 
  • #19
I think this is just a question of interpretation or rather, correct misinterpretation.

If the question is "on which day did they both say "yesterday I lied" ?" then the answer is friday.

If it's "Which day did they both claim to have lied on ?" the answer is thursday.

Finally, if the question is really "On which day did they both lie?" then the answer is 'on no day' !
 
  • #20
In the first problem with the ages, I found the ages are 3, 5, and 15. (I used a program to figure this out.)

How would I go about figuring this out with the information given?
 
  • #21
Eman said:
In the first problem with the ages, I found the ages are 3, 5, and 15. (I used a program to figure this out.)

How would I go about figuring this out with the information given?

From post #10 use the following :
#1. sum = 23
#2. sum of squares = 259
#3. sum of pairwise products = 135, an odd number.

First sum = odd means you must have (a)1 odd + 2 evens OR (b)3 odds. Now, case(a) can be eliminated by using fact #3, since in that case, all the pairwise products (oe, oe, ee) will be even.

So, we are looking for 3 odd numbers.

Next use the fact that the for a given sum (or perimeter of cuboid) the sum of squares (or length of body diagonal) is minimized when the numbers are equal (when the object is a cube).

So, in this case given that sum =23, if the numbers were roughly equal, the sum of squares would be less than 200 (64+64+49 = 177), but this is actually much larger (259). So we must consider extremely unequal numbers. So one of the following cases must be true : (i) 1 number much less than 8 and 2 numbers greater than 8, OR (ii) 1 number much greater than 8 and 2 numbers less than 8. Now we can eliminate most of case (i) through the following reasoning :

sum of squares of the 2 larger numbers < 259...so the only allowed pairs are (9,9), (9,11), (9,13), (9,15), (11,11). All other pairs are eliminated. It's simple to go through these 5 cases and see that none of them work.

Now you are left with case (ii). Clearly, the maximum value of the largest number is 15 since17^2 = 289 > 259. And since we want an extreme case, we start with (15,y,z) followed by (13,y,z) and (11,y,z) - this last case being pretty unlikely. For the first case, y+z = 23-15 = 8. So possibilities are (1,7) and (3,5). Clearly, the first pair fails but the second works.

So, were are through...the solution is (15,5,3).

In your code, you would have x = 1..21, y = 1..22-x , z = 23 - x - y - a total of 210 computations. Notice that we had to make only 6 computations (of wrong sets) before finding the correct set.
 
Last edited:
  • #22
Thanks Gokul43201, I was struggling with that for a bit.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
17K
  • · Replies 93 ·
4
Replies
93
Views
13K
  • · Replies 86 ·
3
Replies
86
Views
25K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 56 ·
2
Replies
56
Views
11K