The universe is all in our heads

[Rasine]

could the universe only exisit in our minds as how we think of it? or to explan more, if you were the only one in the universe, howeva you thought of it, that is how it would be. for example, if in your mind you saw the universe as being in a square pattern, it would make it so.

 

[balkan]

ask Iacchus32...
even if that was the case, we would never know, would we?

 

[Rasine]

no we wouldn't. it's just interesting to ponder about.

 

[AiA]

Universe can't be in our mind

Ok, first we see that you or I do exist by the expression "I think, therefor I am," but when I prove that I exist, or you prove you exist, how do you know I exist and how do I know you exist. Well simply put, how would it be possible for me to read and hear such things I could never possibly of thought of my self if the place I heard or read the thing didn't exist, it has to or else we wouldn't be able to ever grow in knowledge we do grow in knowledge, every day.

Now using your example of the universe being checkered pattern, simply put checkered patterns or colors are not contingent on man, if all humans died the colors would still exist, so if every one says grass is green and one says its red it is logical to say grass is naturally green, and if all man died then the grass would still be green. (though in no way am I implying majority rules, this situation is logical to say grass is green and not red.)

 

[Iacchus32]

could the universe only exisit in our minds as how we think of it? or to explan more, if you were the only one in the universe, howeva you thought of it, that is how it would be. for example, if in your mind you saw the universe as being in a square pattern, it would make it so.

If reality were entirely "thought based," say like the "type" of reality we experience in our dreams, then I suppose such a thing is possible. But then again most would attribute that to an over-active imagination. I personally have had some very vivid dreams, however, that were so vivid that I couldn't distinguish between being fully awake in the dream and being fully awake in reality. In fact I didn't know otherwise until after I woke up.

 

[AiA]

I think its safe to say we have or must of us have had such dreams, I know I have (I personally am quite fond of them) but when you wake up you become well aware of what is the dream and what is reality.

 

[Iacchus32]

I think its safe to say we have or must of us have had such dreams, I know I have (I personally am quite fond of them) but when you wake up you become well aware of what is the dream and what is reality.

And yet dreams are a form of reality in and of themselves are they not? Otherwise what's to remember about them? And, more importantly, why were "you" participating in them? Can we really pass them off as electro-chemical processes in the brain that regard? Obviously the conscious "observer" exists there too as well.

 

[AiA]

Dreams are conscience, but are still dreams.

Yes your right, but still we can differ between a dream and reality so there is no reason arguing that.

 

[Iacchus32]

Yes your right, but still we can differ between a dream and reality so there is no reason arguing that.

Yes, we can differ between the two states, but it still requires that we participate either way. In fact when we enter the dream state, as irrational and incoherent as it may seem (sometimes not), aren't we really entering the same realm as concepts and abstract thought? If so, then might I suggest that there may exist another reality and/or dimension on the other side of our brains? This (once we become acclimatized to where we're at) would be the reality directly correspondent to the way we think and feel.

 

[AiA]

You couldn't be more right

The universe, the reality is not on its own, when we dream, even when awake, we use our mind, subconsciously and consciously, this mind is part of another "reality" if you want to call it that though it is part of the same reality, only different field one could say. I will first prove what this other field is before declaring what it is, think of the color yellow, now tell me, how much does that thought weigh, how tall is it, what I'm trying to say is that it isn't in this physical field, it is another, metaphysical.

 

[Iacchus32]

The universe, the reality is not on its own, when we dream, even when awake, we use our mind, subconsciously and consciously, this mind is part of another "reality" if you want to call it that though it is part of the same reality, only different field one could say. I will first prove what this other field is before declaring what it is, think of the color yellow, now tell me, how much does that thought weigh, how tall is it, what I'm trying to say is that it isn't in this physical field, it is another, metaphysical.

And yet without this inner-reality, we have no witness to reality in any sense. So you tell me, which is more tangible? How does one acknowledge the truth without a mind to do so?

 

[AiA]

What differs man from animal, our metaphysical self of mind and soul. Now without this metaphysical self we will live like animals, we will be animals living on instinct, it is the mind which allows us to acknowledge this metaphysical "reality", actually calling it another plane of field is more apropriate cause there is only one reality. So we see the physical and metaphysical, and we see how our minds work upon both planes.

 

[Rader]

could the universe only exisit in our minds as how we think of it?

That’s possible or the universe only exists in a Mind and we think its in ours.

 

[PIT2]

It is possible to dream and be aware that you are dreaming (lucid dream). Its also possible to control such a dream.

But is it possible to interact with other people in a dream who are also dreaming?

 

[Iacchus32]

What differs man from animal, our metaphysical self of mind and soul. Now without this metaphysical self we will live like animals, we will be animals living on instinct, it is the mind which allows us to acknowledge this metaphysical "reality", actually calling it another plane of field is more apropriate cause there is only one reality. So we see the physical and metaphysical, and we see how our minds work upon both planes.

If you're willing to accept that such a plane exists, yes.

 

[Iacchus32]

It is possible to dream and be aware that you are dreaming (lucid dream). Its also possible to control such a dream.

Yes, this is pretty widely known.

But is it possible to interact with other people in a dream who are also dreaming?

And what would that suggest if it were possible?

 

[PIT2]

And what would that suggest if it were possible?

It would suggest that the dreamworld is as real as the 'awake world'.

 

[AiA]

dreams exist

It would suggest that the dreamworld is as real as the 'awake world'.

That is very true, but there are two things you must realize, first we can't talk to others in our dreams cause that would mean our minds are linked during sleep, and we know that isn't possible (with todays technology.)
The other thing you must realize is that our dreams are just as real as the "awake world" simply because dreams do exist, if they didn't exist they would be nothing, and since we can not comprehend nothing then it must be something, it exists in our mind as thought, and thought exists through our minds metaphysically, so dreams do exist and are just as real as "awake world."

 

[Iacchus32]

It would suggest that the dreamworld is as real as the 'awake world'.

Well, if that were the case, and come to find out that the other folks we experience in our dreams are beings such as ourselves, what else are we to conclude, except that this is evidence that we have a soul? Of course if that were the case, then these other beings need not necessarily be ones that are alive currently. Which would make more sense, since we rarely hear of anyone sharing the same dream. But then again, this only implies that we don't know who they are.

 

[PIT2]

I don't have a clue what else to conclude from it really.

 

[Iacchus32]

I don't have a clue what else to conclude from it really.

Join the club.

 

[AiA]

dreams are dreams, nothing more

dreams can not be intertwined with other people or dead people etc, this is because dreams are nothing more than our mind providing images based on what its run with, me for example am someone who watches a lot of movies, so I sometimes have dreams incorperating movies or what ever, some of these dreams are extremely realistic and I truly believe are real until I wake up, but that in no way implies it has anything to do with meeting other people or what ever, its just the mind working while the body sleeps, nothing more.

 

[honestrosewater]

Assuming everything is in your mind, can you control some things but not others? Where is the line drawn?

 

[honestrosewater]

But then again, this only implies that we don't know who they are.

But in not knowing, we know. Oh wait, wrong thread

 

[Iacchus32]

dreams can not be intertwined with other people or dead people etc, this is because dreams are nothing more than our mind providing images based on what its run with, me for example am someone who watches a lot of movies, so I sometimes have dreams incorperating movies or what ever, some of these dreams are extremely realistic and I truly believe are real until I wake up, but that in no way implies it has anything to do with meeting other people or what ever, its just the mind working while the body sleeps, nothing more.

And yet how do you know that these experiences don't accumulate and compile on the other side of our brains, say like on a network server -- thus signifying the http://www.dionysus.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97 -- where each brain behaves like a single computer, which both inputs information and receives it? If this is so, then there should be a correspondent reality on both the metaphysical lelvel and, the physical level. Which in fact is what our dreams suggest.

 

[AiA]

First off, there is one reality, physical and metaphysical both exist in this reality, secondly, our minds are much more than computers. thirdly, I'm not sure what your asking or saying, I never denied physics nor metaphysics, they are very much connected, my mind and soul are metaphysical within my body which is physical, related, a trinity of self.

 

[Iacchus32]

First off, there is one reality, physical and metaphysical both exist in this reality, secondly, our minds are much more than computers. thirdly, I'm not sure what your asking or saying, I never denied physics nor metaphysics, they are very much connected, my mind and soul are metaphysical within my body which is physical, related, a trinity of self.

So, do you think caterpillars ever dream of being butterflies? Obviously we are speaking of two separate stages of reality here aren't we?

 

[Y.T.]

I have lucid dreams ALL the time. Also, I often have dreams about events before they happen. Dream about people and places that exist, but that I have never seen before in waking reality. for example, i recently had an adventure dream that took place at this "spa" in iceland. it was basically this gigantic outdoor pool with this blue almost glowing water. the water was supposed to have healing properties or something. i was there with my mother and sister. it was such a vivid, fun dream i had to call my mom and tell her about it the next day. fast foward a few weeks, i am home watching that reality show "the amazing race" for the first time, and as they are showing clips from the previous week, when they were in iceland, i see that they were at this place in iceland, and it look EXACTLY like my dream. i got the most wonderful feeling of de ja vu. i did some research the following day on the internet, and discovered that the place from my dream does exist, in reykavic (sp?). it's called the blue lagoon. i have never been to iceland. how do you explain experiences like this if dreams are just the mind working while the body sleeps?

food for thought.

 

[Iacchus32]

Yes, this would be an example of the http://www.dionysus.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97, albeit I'm not sure Jung (as has been pointed out to me) intended for it to be spelled out fully in spiritualistic terms. It clearly lends itself to the idea of it though.