Half life measurements on foams

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on methods for measuring the half-life of water-based foams, specifically aqueous foams composed of water and nitrogen. Participants explore various techniques and mathematical considerations related to these measurements, addressing challenges in accuracy and methodology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in accurately measuring the half-life of water-based foams and requests information on the correct methodology and mathematical tools.
  • Another participant suggests using a weak-skinned balloon to measure the amount of air escaping, which could correlate with the volumetric change due to bubble collapse, proposing that half-life can be defined as the time for the number of bubbles to halve.
  • A participant clarifies that the foams are dry and low in density, noting that half-life refers to the time it takes for the foam to reach half its initial height, while expressing concerns about the accuracy of height measurements due to inhomogeneity.
  • One participant proposes using a large, see-through plastic container with volumetric graduations and suggests suspending a thin, air-permeable fabric over the foam to improve measurement accuracy, arguing that averaging should not introduce significant errors.
  • A participant acknowledges the advice received and shares their current approach, noting the limitations of their measurement accuracy due to foam height inhomogeneity and the need to account for changes in liquid height during the experiment.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and concerns regarding the measurement of half-life in foams, but there is no consensus on a definitive method or resolution of the challenges presented. Multiple competing views and approaches remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention uncertainties in measuring foam height and the potential impact of liquid height changes on measurements. There are also discussions about the accuracy of different proposed methods, indicating limitations in the current approaches.

Telmerk
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Hi!
I'd like to make some half-life measurements on water based foams. I have only simple instruments for it. Can anybody help me? I don't know the exact method that how to make this measurement correctly. And I also need the mathematical apparatus for it. I've found an article where the authors say that a dry foam decays logarithmically. Please help me if you know a method of measuring it accurately! :frown: Thanks a lot in advance!
 
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How dense are these foams? Could you contain them in some kind of weak-skinned balloon, and measure and record the amount of air which leaves the balloon (which will be almost equal to the volumetric change due to bubble collapse). The half life is merely the time it takes for the number of bubbles (approximated by the volume of your sample) to halve. Let me know if I got the wrong end of the stick, or even the wrong stick!
 
Hello! These are aqueous foams(water+nitrogen), so their density is very low. They're dry, that means they don't contain large amount of water. Half life in this case means the time elapsed when the foam reaches its half of its initial height. The problem is that I cannot measure accurately the height of the foam, because it is uncertain, and calculating an average adds too big mistakes to the measurement.
Well, measuring the amount of gas would be good, but unfortunately I don't know how to do this properly. . .
 
Here's my plan!

Obtain a see through plastic container which is fairly large. The wider this is, the more accurate your results will be. Mark volumetric graduations onto the side of the container, (use water for this). Ideally you want to suspend a film of thin, air-permeable fabric (perhaps a cotton gauze, filter paper, you get the idea) on the top of the foam stack. If the foam is not dense enough for this, just use the biggest container you can find, then any variations in the height of the stack should begin to cancel each other out. I would still recommend you use a system of averages, there is no reason at all why this would add mistakes to your results.
 
Thanks, Brewnog! This is what I'm doing now! I have not tried the filter aper yet, but I may be. The accuracy of my measurements is about 0.5-1 cm, due to the inhomogenity of the foam height. The height of the liquid must change, too, during the experiment, but I cannot notice it, because my container has a quite large cross section (8x12cm).
 

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