Schwarz Inequality and Irrational Numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the irrationality of the expression cube root(3) + sqrt(2), the geometrical interpretation of the Schwarz Inequality for different dimensions, and the conditions under which equality holds in the Schwarz Inequality. Participants are exploring proofs and interpretations related to these mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes to prove that cube root(3) + sqrt(2) is irrational by assuming it can be expressed as a rational number p/q, leading to a polynomial equation.
  • Another participant mentions a theorem regarding rational solutions of polynomials, suggesting that rational solutions are given by p/q where p divides the constant term and q divides the leading coefficient.
  • There is a discussion about the geometrical interpretation of the Schwarz Inequality, with one participant noting that the expression a1b1 + a2b2 can be recognized as the dot product of two vectors.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to apply the Schwarz Inequality in the context of proving conditions for equality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the proofs or interpretations discussed. Multiple competing views and approaches remain, particularly regarding the irrationality proof and the application of the Schwarz Inequality.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the steps needed to prove the irrationality of the expression and how to apply the Schwarz Inequality effectively. There are also unresolved mathematical steps in the discussions.

courtrigrad
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Hello everyone. I have 2 questions.

1. Prove that the cube root (3) + sqrt (2) is irrational.

My Solution​
Assume l is an irrational number of the form p/q where p and q are integers not equal to 0. Then

p^6 / q^6 = [(cube root(3) + sqrt (2))]^6

I concluded that it must be in the form x^6 +a1x^5 + ... + an(sub n) = 0, where a1..an are integers. I do not know how to prove whether x is irrational or integral. I tried using a simpler case like sqrt (2), but it did not work.


2. State the geometrical interpretation of Schwarz Inequality for n = 2, 3.

I know the interpretation is for any angle between two straight lines the cosine is less than the absolute value of 1. But how do you get that?

I know Schwarz Inequality is:

(a1b1 + a2b2 +... +anbn)^2 <= (a1^2+a2^2+...+an^2) (b1^2+b2^2+...+bn^2).

So for n = 2, we have (a1b1 +a2b2)^2 <= (a1^2+a2^2)(b1^2+b2^2). However how do we get the interpretation mentioned above?

3. Show that the equality sign in Schwarz Inequality holds if and only if the a's and b's are proportional; cav +dbv = 0.

My Solution​
We know that ax^2 + 2bx + c = a(x+ b/a)^2 + ac-b^2/ a
If b^2 - ac = 0 we can set above equation equal to 0. Then ehat?


I would appreciate any responses.

Thanks
 
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1. There's a nifty theorem about the rational solutions of polynomials:

Given the polynomal [itex]a_n x^n + \ldots + a_1 x + a_0[/itex], with all of the a_i integers, all rational solutions are given by p/q where p divides a_0 and q divides a_n.



2. Do you recognize a1b1 + a2b2 as the dot product of <a1, a2> with <b1, b2>?
 
any ideas about the third problem?
 
Here is my solution to the third problem:

ax^2 + 2bx + c = 0 iff b^2 - ac = 0. Then we apply Schwarz inequality. However this is where I get stuck. How do we apply Schwarz Inequality?


Note: ax^2 + 2bx + c = 0 is same as a(x + b/a )^2 + (ac - b^2 )/ a = 0
 

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