Air Pressure & Temperature: Is the Relationship Correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between air pressure and temperature, exploring whether higher temperatures correspond to lower air pressure and vice versa. Participants examine this concept through various lenses, including theoretical explanations, practical implications in weather systems, and the Ideal Gas Law.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that higher temperatures lead to lower air pressure due to the expansion and decreased density of warm air masses.
  • Others argue that cooler air masses are denser and sink, resulting in higher pressure systems, suggesting a contradiction to the initial claim.
  • A later reply questions the context of the discussion, asking whether it pertains to a test tube or the entire atmosphere, indicating a need for clarification on the scale of the phenomena being discussed.
  • One participant emphasizes the Ideal Gas Law, stating that pressure increases with temperature when volume and moles are constant, and presents mathematical relationships to support this view.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the definitions of high and low pressure systems in weather forecasts, seeking clarity on the behavior of air masses and their interactions.
  • Further discussion includes analogies involving balloons to illustrate how temperature changes can affect pressure and volume, while also referencing principles of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the relationship between air pressure and temperature, with some supporting the initial claim and others providing counterarguments based on established principles.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for more detail regarding the context of air pressure and temperature relationships, indicating that assumptions about scale and conditions may affect interpretations of the concepts discussed.

7bear
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Higher the temperature, lower is the air pressure.
Lower the temperature, higher is the air pressure.

Are they right? If yes, why? :confused:
 
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In general, I think that this is correct. A warm air mass will rise and expand. When this is happening over you, the local atmospheric pressure is therefore lower. I'm guessing it's simply because you have a less dense air mass over you. Therefore it weighs less and exerts less pressure. Come to think of it, it's like suddenly having fewer air molecules per unit volume. Just as if this were happening in a container, the pressure would decrease.

Likewise, a cooler air mass will sink and contract, becoming more dense. I'm quite sure that when that happens in your area, it's referred to as a high pressure system.

Is my assessment correct?
 
is this in a test tube, or the whole world?

you should give more deatail , casue this will leads to several answers
 
cepheid said:
In general, I think that this is correct. A warm air mass will rise and expand. When this is happening over you, the local atmospheric pressure is therefore lower. I'm guessing it's simply because you have a less dense air mass over you. Therefore it weighs less and exerts less pressure. Come to think of it, it's like suddenly having fewer air molecules per unit volume. Just as if this were happening in a container, the pressure would decrease.

Likewise, a cooler air mass will sink and contract, becoming more dense. I'm quite sure that when that happens in your area, it's referred to as a high pressure system.

Is my assessment correct?

Actually, the exact opposite is true about what you said. First of all, pressure increases with temperature, and increasing pressure or temperature causes density to go down. Hence why hotter air rises and cooler air sinks. In fact a "high pressure system" that they refer to in forcasts always have higher temperature, and low pressure systems always have lower temperature. According to the Ideal Gas Law...

[tex]PV = nRT[/tex]

Where P = pressure, V = volume, n = moles, R = ideal gas constant, and T = temperature
As you can see, when pressure increases if volume and moles is kept constant, then temperature must increase as well.

You can manipulate the equation to see the effects on density...

[tex]n = \frac{m}{MM}[/tex] Where m = mass, and MM = molar mass

[tex]PV = \frac{mRT}{MM}[/tex]

[tex]P = \frac{DRT}{MM}[/tex] Where D = density

[tex]D = \frac{P(MM)}{RT}[/tex]

From this, it is clearly seen that if pressure is kept constant, increasing temperature must make density decrease

Actually, it is much easier to see the relationship between P, V, and T by using the Combined Gas law...

[tex]\frac{P_1V_1}{T_1} = \frac{P_2V_2}{T_2}[/tex]

See for yourself by pluging in numbers.
 
Last edited:
7bear said:
Higher the temperature, lower is the air pressure.
Lower the temperature, higher is the air pressure.

Are they right? If yes, why? :confused:

Actually, if you look at weather forecasts, its the other way around.
 
expscv said:
is this in a test tube, or the whole world?

you should give more deatail , casue this will leads to several answers

Yeah, actually. I'm really confused about this after reading everyone's answers. I admit I must have been wrong, but what I'd like to know is what's meant by high pressure and low pressure weather systems.

Classroom explanations are kind of weird because they talk of an "air mass" being warmed, expanding, rising, and cooling. I'd also like to know: if we're surrounded by a sea of air, what differentiates one particular air mass, and how can it "expand" without displacing air around it? :confused:
 
cepheid said:
Yeah, actually. I'm really confused about this after reading everyone's answers. I admit I must have been wrong, but what I'd like to know is what's meant by high pressure and low pressure weather systems.

Classroom explanations are kind of weird because they talk of an "air mass" being warmed, expanding, rising, and cooling. I'd also like to know: if we're surrounded by a sea of air, what differentiates one particular air mass, and how can it "expand" without displacing air around it? :confused:

Thats the thing, it DOES displace those around it, hence "wind".

Imagine the air as a bunch of balloons filled up that can be compressed or inflated, heated (wont melt), but let's keep the AMOUNT of air particles "n" the same. We then have idea gas law :
PV ~ T

So if you increase the temp of one balloon, for its pressure to remain at equillibrium it increases its volume. This forces all the surronding balloons to shrink, which make them warmer, because as V drops, P increases and so does T. See, everything is trying to be in equillibrium, heat and pressure, so it balances itself out. By transfering heat to a colder balloon, the pressure in the hot balloon drops. Really its fluid mechanics of the changes of pressure, where if you don't know applied mathematics for fluid dynamics its hard to understand.

Also remember wind is mainly from bernoulli's principle, that there's a force normal to a pressure gradient. This also means there's a force(in air) to a temperature gradient. Basic thermodynamics.
 

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