How Does Light Reflect on Paper with Dual LED Angles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of light reflecting off a piece of paper when illuminated by two LEDs positioned at equal angles to the normal. Participants explore concepts of reflection, coherence, and the potential for detecting reflected light at a specific point between the LEDs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the reflected ray could be along the normal, partly along the normal, or scattered in various directions, seeking clarification on the nature of reflection.
  • Another participant proposes dividing the problem into contributions from each LED, noting that the lack of coherence means no interference effects will occur.
  • Specular reflection is described as light reflecting at equal angles, while diffuse reflection scatters light in all directions.
  • A participant questions the coherence of the LEDs, arguing that if they emit light in the same wavelength range, they might be considered coherent due to the constant surface properties.
  • There is a discussion about the prominence of specular versus diffuse reflection and whether a detector could effectively capture reflected light placed between the LEDs.
  • One participant clarifies that coherence relates to the phase of emitted light, stating that LED light is not in phase, unlike laser diodes.
  • A later reply confirms that a detector placed between the LEDs would detect some reflected light, but the amount would depend on various factors including LED output and environmental noise.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the coherence of the LEDs and the nature of reflection, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for further exploration of the prominence of specular versus diffuse reflection and the conditions under which a detector might effectively capture reflected light, highlighting unresolved aspects of the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying optics, light behavior, or anyone involved in experimental setups involving LED lighting and reflection phenomena.

kdkdkd
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imagine that i have a pair of LEDs throwing light on the same point on a piece of paper. This is possible if the LEDs are inclined equally at an angle to the normal coming out of paper, right?

now if i consider two rays hitting the paper at the same point, then where can i explain the presence of the reflected ray as, is it:

1) along the normal coming out of the paper
2) partly along this normal and partly through one of the paths of incidence(since angle of incidence = angle of reflection).
3) scattered everywhere.

or is it any other answer.
help is appreciated. :confused:
 
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You can start off by dividing the problem into two sections - first you figure out the contribution of one LED to what you see, then you figure out the contribution of the other LED, then you add them together. This is possible because the two LED's won't produce any interference effects, they are not coherent.

Now, when light hits a paper, some of it will reflect like a mirror, where the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. This is called specular reflection.

Other light will scatter in all directions - this is called diffuse relflection.


You'll usually see a more mathematical treatment of these sorts of problems in "ray tracing" for generation of computer images.

With flat objects, specular reflection just means glare when the object is tilted correctly, with round or curved objects (like an apple), specular reflection will create "highlights"

I didn't find anything helpful for "typical" values for specular vs diffuse reflection coefficients for paper in a quick google.
 
thanks a lot for your reply. it was heartening to note that there are no interference effects... though I am not entirely convinced about this. if the LEDs are of the same make, let out light in the same wavelength range, isn't the spectral equation governed by:

reflected ray property = integral ( spectral property of incident * spectral property of surface of incidence)

since both LEDs strike the same surface, the incidence surface property is also constant. so aren't they coherent??

could you enlighten me about the prominence of one particular kind of reflection over the other. If specular reflection were prominent enough, then could i successfully place a light detector between the LEDs, i.e along the normal?
thanks again.
 
Coherence relates to the phase of the emitted light. Photons emitted by an LED are not in phase, thus any phase dependent effects (such as interference fringes) will be washed out. Laser Diodes by contrast emit photons that are in phase, and thus will exhibit interference effects.

Claude.
 
thanks claude, i guess pervect was also trying to convey your idea.
my actual doubt still remains...
is it possible to place a detector between the two inclined LEDs (remember the LEDs direct light to a single point on paper) and detect the reflected light to a large extent?

good day.
 
Yes, if you place a detector there you will certainly detect something, how much depends on the output of the LED's, the optical noise coming from the surrounding environment, and how much the paper scatters the light.

Claude.
 

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