Which Moves First: Block on a Wedge?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a block placed on a wedge in a frictionless environment, specifically addressing the question of which object moves first when gravitational force is applied. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and conceptual exploration of forces and motion in a physics context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the block and wedge will begin to move simultaneously due to the mutual forces they exert on each other.
  • Others argue that while they may move together as an approximation, there is a finite time delay in the transmission of forces, suggesting that the wedge starts moving after the block due to gravitational force acting on it first.
  • A later reply questions the validity of the finite time delay, asserting that the forces are transmitted instantaneously upon contact, and any movement by one must correspond exactly with movement by the other to conserve momentum.
  • One participant introduces a thought experiment involving light and mirrors to illustrate a point about the nature of gravitational force and its immediate effect, suggesting that gravity is always "on" when the block is placed on the wedge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the block and wedge move simultaneously or if there is a delay in the wedge's movement. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of force transmission and motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight assumptions about the instantaneous transmission of forces and the implications of conservation of momentum, but these remain points of contention without resolution.

JDRick
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My son asked me a question...


A block is placed on a wedge... if there is no friction on any surface, which will move 1st?

any thoughts?

Rick :confused:
 
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They will begin to move simultaneously since each is exerting a force on the other simultaneous with the other.
 
I agree, they will move simultaneously.
 
In fact, since there is no net horizontal force, the center of mass MUST remain on the same vertical line. If one moved before the other that could not be true.
 
what moves first

O.K. They move together as an approximation.

But, let as see what actually happens. First, gravitational force acts on the block. Simultaneously the motion of block starts. Now, the block exerts a normal force on the wedge. The force is transmitted in a finite time. So, after that finite time, the wedge starts moving. That finite time is too small.

But it still is there.

What do you say?

spacetime
www.geocities.com/physics_all/index.html
 
The block and wedge are in direct contact with each other, which means that the force would be "transmitted" instantaneously. However, the forces are really not separable from one another: the wedge exerts normal force on the block - and the block exerts weight on the wedge - as soon as they come into contact. There is no delay whatsoever.
 
spacetime said:
O.K. They move together as an approximation.

But, let as see what actually happens. First, gravitational force acts on the block. Simultaneously the motion of block starts. Now, the block exerts a normal force on the wedge. The force is transmitted in a finite time. So, after that finite time, the wedge starts moving. That finite time is too small.

But it still is there.

What do you say?

spacetime
www.geocities.com/physics_all/index.html

No, that is not an approximation. Unless you are going to violate conservation of momentum, any move by one block MUST correspond exactly by a move by the other.
 
I think you will make my work easy if you could please tell me, that if, you are standing in front of mirror and switch on a bulb at you back from where light will you see earllier i mean reflected one or one by bulb itself.
If you could answer that i think you know the solution yourself.
 
aekanshchumber said:
I think you will make my work easy if you could please tell me, that if, you are standing in front of mirror and switch on a bulb at you back from where light will you see earllier i mean reflected one or one by bulb itself.
If you could answer that i think you know the solution yourself.

Unfortunately, you don't get to turn gravity on or off with a switch. It was there and "turned on" when you first placed the block on the wedge. Newtonian physics simply does not account for propagation of gravity.
 

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