Gerson Method and Nutrition Therapy (FoodMatters)

Greg Bernhardt

I've been watching the documentary FoodMatters. It seems like quackery to me! It makes the very suspicious claim that eating a proper diet will not only prevent all illness but can cure all current illness. A proper diet is defined as: raw, organic, low sugar, low sodium, vegetarian.

Certainly it seems as a obvious statement that an improved diet will result in improved health, but their claim seems to go a bit overboard. They claimed to have cured cancer with Nutrition Therapy alone (100g of vitamin C). Also claimed to cure a persons depression with 11g of Niacin a day.

They also state that doctors receive almost no training in nutrition.

One of the main speakers is Charlotte Gerson from the Gerson Institute. A well known institution with a gray reputation.

Are we too dependent on medications? Could we be doing more with food and supplements? What are your thoughts on the Gerson Method and Nutrition Therapy?

Evo

It's quackery. The human body cannot break down the cells in many raw foods, therefor humans cannot absorb the nutrients.

There is so much that is wrong, I don't know where to start.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...nary/mdfg.html


see Gerson Method http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...cs/cancer.html

Evo

More...
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/p...essional/page3

bobze

I know the medical school I attend has had a full class devoted to nutrition since 1995. I know from talking to friends at other medical schools they get nutrition covered between biochemistry and their clinical reasoning/skills type classes. Most medical schools also offer elective rotations during 3rd or 4th year 2-4 weeks through nutritional medicine.

I think it was really recognized back in the 90's that physicians needed more nutrition as part of their core learning and this has been a curriculum requirement for medical school certification since. Regardless it seems, people are still oft to repeat the cliche that "physicians don't get enough nutrition".

As to the claims? Sure a healthier diet certainly leads to better physical and mental health, curing cancer though? No, just more of this "naturo/homeopathic" bunk that seems to be permeating our culture at a cost to the patient.

Proton Soup

you can't take 100g of vitamin C without s*!tting yourself. just won't happen, diarrhea takes over and washes it out. some people have injected it, tho. i think it was Linus Pauling himself that started the vitamin C nuttery. but no, it's never been proven to work.

not sure about the niacin thing. but there are a few metabolic diseases where specific nutrients may make a difference. a few people seem to get better remission from epilepsy with B-6 for example. and a very specific form of folate (5-MTHF) may help with some people that have resistant depression. there are even some supplements that may help with liver damage. but, except for treating deficiencies, i think most results are pretty modest. for example, fish oil doesn't cure depression, but it tends to improve scores.

Greg Bernhardt

Good to know! I think we can safely call this movie bunk! I wish NetFlix would drop it from their library. We'll keep this thread open for it's exposure.

Yeah I believe they were talking about injections and claimed no side effects.

Speaking of fish oil. I take several capsules after a hard workout to battle inflammation instead of ibuprofen. Seems to help.

Proton Soup

after is good. just keep in mind that some inflammation is key to generating an adaptive response to exercise, so avoid taking anti-inflammatories before your workout. same for anti-oxidants.

i have taken fish oil for treating inflammation before, but the results i was getting came from using quite a lot (3 TBSP). perhaps too much. also, the fish oil activates a prostaglandin pathway that is supposed to be healthier than the ones typically activated by NSAIDS.

ETOPS

This is quackery, but complementary medicine is something for which I am very much a proponent. Eating well, controlling stress, exercising, and other unconventional means to wellness are well-researched and do not take the place of, but rather complement, real medical care. If people did eat better and exercise, maybe the United States of America wouldn't suffer from such an epidemic of cancer, type-2 diabetes, obesity, and cardiovascular disease. Doctors today do not teach prevention. It is not enough to avoid smoking and occasionally get off the couch.

A plant-based, low-glycemic diet can certainly prevent cancer and other diseases. Researchers are experimenting with a tertiary class of nutrients: those several thousand phytonutrients which are naturally contained in fruits, vegetables, herbs/spices, and tea. This goes far beyond simple calorie management and believing everything is about gluttony which leads to obesity which heightens risk for the common diseases Americans face. Avoiding the bad (trans fat, processed sugar, cigarette smoke, red meat, alcohol, toxins, unsafe food additives) is an excellent measure, but it is also about what you do for prevention and well-being throughout your entire life.

nismaratwork

You start off so skeptical, then end with such certainty. Tell me, which plants are most beneficial, and which are balanced by carcinogens? Any studies to share?...

Sorry, this is quackery and the usual snake-oil sales, but of an IP instead of a bottle of laudanum. You should eat and exercise in a manner that properly influences your CBC & Lipid Count... no other measure for you unless you fall back on fancy.

berkeman

Per the forum rules, you need to provide some links to peer-reviewed mainstream articles that support the claims you are making.

ETOPS

I began by stating my disapproval of alternative "therapies" like the subject of this discussion, the Gerson Method. I then proceeded with a statement of endorsement for complementary measures, namely proper nutrition, exercise, stress management, toxin avoidance, etc. You must be a speed-reader. Alternative therapies take the place of proper medical attention. They are unscientific, potentially-lethal diversions for skeptics of medicine and people who know no better. Complementary medicine is a field that combines conventional medical care with nutrition, exercise, acupuncture, meditation, and anything else that doesn't fall under conventional medicine's domain or menu of services.

Those of you calling for evidence first need an understanding of physiology and pathology. If you cannot define inflammation, insulin, angiogenesis, or neoplasm, go educate yourself by reading reliable sources. The understanding that lifestyle choices determine cancer risk necessarily follows if you have a solid understanding of the aforementioned concepts.

Now, instead of citing the thousands of studies that affirm my statements, I will present only one comprehensive one and let you do as much additional digging as you like:

• World Cancer Research Fund, Food, Nutrition and the Prevention of Cancer: A Global Perspective (London: World Cancer Research Fund and American Institute for Research on Cancer, 2007). [500,000 studies were screened down to a mere 7,000 meeting strict criteria - 10 recommendations were published for reducing the risk of cancer. Let's see if they support or refute my statements. Read the Wikipedia page or visit the report's website for further information.]

For those of you who are still wedded to the grand theory of genetic predestination, here are some studies proving that your environment, not your genes, determines ~85% of your disease risk:

• Sorensen, T.I.A., G.G. Nielsen, P.K. Andersen, et. al., "Genetic and Environmental Influences on Premature Death in Adult Adoptees," New England Journal of Medicine 318 (1988): 727-32.
• Lichtenstein, P.N.V Holm, P.K. Verkasalo, et al. "Environmental and Heritable Factors in the Causation of Cancer - Analyses of Cohorts of Twins from Sweden, Denmark, and Finland," New England Journal of Medicine 343, no. 2 (2000): 78-85.

I'd love to stay and educate, but I have to go prepare a cauliflower soup with curry and other spices. I regularly eat Brassica family vegetables for their indole-3-carbinol and cauliflower goes great with curry powder, containing turmeric (active component curcumin), one of the most potent anti-inflammatories that can be consumed. For those of you in denial, so be it. My mission is not to combat nutritional myths. I just thought I'd make some of you aware of the benefits of taking care of your body. Who could've conjectured that fruits and vegetables are good for us?

ETOPS

nismaratwork, your jargon makes no sense. Which vegetables are balanced by carcinogens? Are you asking which vegetables contain the most carcinogens? I'd avoid genus Agaricus mushrooms, aka the common white or button mushrooms, which contain a carcinogenic hydrazine-derivative called agaritine. Which plants are most nutritious? As I stated above, I like the Brassica family for several reason. It's important, however, to vary your diet and eat across the color spectrum. Red meat (red), potatoes (white), diet Coke (brown), and french fries (yellow) don't count. I'm talking about natural colors, like the cyanidins in beets and blueberries, or the carotenoids in carrots, sweet potatoes, etc.

Oh, and nismaratwork, don't be so attached to your blood results. You may want to tag some broccoli along with your triple-patty burger.

ETOPS

Those who say physicians don't learn nutrition are foolish. MD and DO students do, but certainly not much. They come out knowing what a thiamine deficiency is called, or what signs of rickets are, but they usually eat like every other soda-chugging American. Prevention is cheaper than midnight cardiac catheterizations at the level I trauma center. I'd say it's about time doctors lead by example and take up healthy lifestyles themselves.

Physics-Learner

hi greg,

i havent seen the film, so i will just make comments about your description.

it is my opinion that our environment has much more to do with our health than our genetics, so i agree with the statement that etops made, in this regard.

we have not discovered how to live forever, so our bodies do degenerate. but we have a lot of control regarding the speed at which this happens.

as a general rule, our bodies are quite sophisticated, and will heal ourselves whenever possible. in order for our bodies to do what they are designed to do, they need the proper ingredients.

i think many illnesses are curable, but there are also instances in which our bodies have degenerated too much for us to cure. there are also some things that we may not know how to cure, such as ridding ourselves of various viruses.

regarding cancer - most people are not aware that we create cancerous cells within our body as a natural part of living. our immune system gets rid of them.

cancer is actually a grouping of cancer cells that have grown together, and now can act as one unit. so as a general statement, we should never get cancer if we are doing what our bodies want us to do.

this is true of diabetes, and most of the diseases that are prevalent in the first world countries, where our problems are based on excesses - as opposed to third world countries, whose health problems have to do mainly with deficiencies.

while doctors may receive some education on nutrition, the medical community, like most other communities is first about making money. pharmacies cant sell you sweet potatoes. they sell you drugs. and still the most common methods that physicians use is prescribing medicines for you to take.

just look at a person's medicine cabinet, and you get a good idea of his age. most older people are taking all sorts of various medicines to "cure" problems. unfortunately, most of it actually accomplishes the "temporary deletion of symptoms", until new problems occur, which causes the doctor to prescribe more medicines.

these symptoms are what the body uses to tell us it is unhappy with us, and these medicines remove the only method our body has of letting us know. to really cure these problems requires us to give the body what it wants.

we know to put gas in our gas tank, oil in our oil tank, water in our radiator, brake fluid in its reservoir, etc. why do we do this ? because this is how our car is designed to work.

likewise, we need to supply our body with what it was designed with, to work efficiently. proper food intake, exercise, sleep, etc.

the secret to good health is not so much about the knowledge of what to do, BUT RATHER THE DISCIPLINE TO DO IT.

nismaratwork

Triple patty burger? Tell me, did you say that because you think I'm Indian-Hindu, and therefore cows would be sacred, or was it merely a silly assumption made without any knowledge? Beyond that, I can't believe you actually asked which plants are NOT nutrititious... TONS OF THEM!... for humans.

Then again, if you'd like to eat a holly bush, any number of grasses, or a fistful of poison sumac, be my guest. I'm not seeing anything in your posts that isn't an attempt at bluster, and again, you've slid back into pseudoscience with your offer of studies... or rather, the absolute conclusions you draw.

@Physics-Learner: How to seperate "health and genetics"?! Science has made it abundantly clear that it's nature AND nurture, not one or the other.

ETOPS

Many is fuzzy language. Some foods are better digested raw and some are better digested cooked. Heating meat, for example, decreases protein digestibility. Conversely, raw rice is not as digestible as cooked rice because heating will disrupt the cellulose. It all depends on the food. Raw is a great state for some vegetables in a salad. Cooking something until it's mush will deplete nutritional value. Cooking tomatoes, though, will make them bright red and more lycopene bioavailable.

nismaratwork

Citations... Studies... please cite. For instance, cooking mustard greens to death is obviously destroying valuable phytosterols, and other delightful compounds. On the other hand, cooking method and the item being cooked can in fact allow us to more efficiently extract nutrition. Without specifics, you've made a meanignless statement. Please read the S&D guidelines.

edit: I would add, the consumption of raw products is also a matter of sanitation, which varies greatly by region; you need to see a greater benefit from raw consumption than the potential risks. In addition, cooking tomatoes does what you say, but is best achieved through a slow process without exceeding a given temperature.