Gravity and massless particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how massless particles, such as photons, are affected by gravity. It touches on concepts from general relativity, the nature of gravity, and the implications of theories like the 'ghost condensate'. The scope includes theoretical explanations and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the effects of gravity on massless particles and light, referencing the 'ghost condensate' theory and questioning the existence of such particles in the context of black holes.
  • Another participant explains that in general relativity, gravity is a result of curved spacetime caused by momentum and energy, not just mass, indicating that massless particles still have momentum and energy, allowing them to gravitate.
  • A different participant emphasizes that understanding the interaction of massless particles with gravity requires knowledge of general relativity, noting that all free particles travel along geodesics in spacetime, which are affected by the curvature caused by massive objects.
  • Further clarification is provided that a uniform gravitational field can also deflect light, not just curved spacetime, referencing Einstein's early work on the equivalence principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the question's complexity, with some asserting it is a basic inquiry while others argue it requires a deeper understanding of general relativity. The discussion includes multiple perspectives on how gravity interacts with massless particles.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the implications of the 'ghost condensate' theory and the specific conditions under which massless particles interact with gravity, as well as the definitions of mass and gravitational effects.

kennethrapp
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I'm sure this is a very newbie-level question, but how is it that massless particles and light are affected by gravity? I've been reading about the 'ghost condensate' theory, and the latest article in New Scientist that says these massless 'ghost' particles should have been sucked up by black holes a long time ago and so they probably don't exist anymore if they ever did. Bearing in mind I haven't got a clue about the intricacies of the ghost condensate idea beyond what I read in magazines, and that I've obviously got my idea of how gravity works wrong because light can't escape a black hole either, I've been confused on the most primal level possible with this.
 
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We ought to have the answer to this question in a FAQ, but we don't, so I'll answer. In general relativity the curved geometry, which is what gravity is, is caused by momentum, energy and the rate they are changing, not by mass by itself Massless particles have momentum and energy even though they don't have mass, so they curve spacetime geometry, and thus they gravitate.
 
Ok. Thank you.
 
kennethrapp said:
I'm sure this is a very newbie-level question, but how is it that massless particles and light are affected by gravity?
All matter has a non-zero and finite gravitational mass. Some exceptions are things which the pressure is negative and so high as to cancel the gravitational effect of the mass. but you're thinking of proper mass (aka rest mass), which is zero for some matter such as photons.

Pete
 
kennethrapp said:
I'm sure this is a very newbie-level question, but how is it that massless particles and light are affected by gravity?
It's not a newbie question. You would have to understand at least the basics of general relativity to know the answer to that question. Any free particle, massless or not, travels on a path through spacetime that in a certain sense is the straightest possible path. In technical terms, the particle's world line is a geodesic. The presence of a heavy object like a star curves spacetime, and the result is that the "straightest possible" paths in spacetime are not straight lines in space.
 
Fredrik said:
It's not a newbie question. You would have to understand at least the basics of general relativity to know the answer to that question. Any free particle, massless or not, travels on a path through spacetime that in a certain sense is the straightest possible path. In technical terms, the particle's world line is a geodesic. The presence of a heavy object like a star curves spacetime, and the result is that the "straightest possible" paths in spacetime are not straight lines in space.
One does not have to have a curved spacetime for a beam of light to be deflected. A uniform gravitational field (no spacetime curvature) will deflect light too. In fact this was the field that Einstein first used in his very first article (1907) on the equivalence principle.

Pete
 

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