Calculus & Physics: What Force Particle Carries Action?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical and mathematical implications of Zeno's paradoxes, particularly in relation to motion and limits in calculus. Participants explore the nature of force particles and the concept of action in the context of an arrow approaching a target, questioning the assumptions behind infinite series and convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving an arrow and a target, questioning what force particle carries the action if the arrow meets the target.
  • Another participant suggests that the scenario may illustrate a limit, referencing a mathematical example of a limit as n approaches infinity.
  • A different viewpoint posits that as the arrow approaches the target, atomic interactions occur, with photons acting as the force carriers due to electric field repulsion.
  • One participant identifies the scenario as a representation of Zeno's paradox, arguing that the assumption that crossing an infinite number of positions in finite time is impossible is incorrect.
  • Another participant asserts that the paradox only exists if one believes that infinite series cannot converge to a finite value, challenging the validity of the paradox itself.
  • Several participants engage in a light-hearted wager related to the scenario, indicating a playful approach to the discussion.
  • One participant shares a formulation of Zeno's paradox involving Achilles and a turtle, illustrating the concept of infinite series and convergence.
  • Another participant comments on the nature of divergent series, suggesting that they can yield counterintuitive results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Zeno's paradoxes and the nature of infinite series. While some argue that the paradox is resolved through the understanding of convergence, others maintain that the paradox highlights fundamental issues in the concept of motion and limits. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical concepts, such as limits and series convergence, without reaching a consensus on their implications for the original scenario involving the arrow and the target.

Enceph
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Ok. A guy fires an arrow at this other guy, who runs away. Now the arrow keeps getting closer and closer, but it never quite impales the second guy because the distance between him and the arrow is able to get infinitely smaller before it happens. :cry: What is happening here? The book I got it from says Calculus solved this problem. I don't know why. Anyway.

What force particle carries the action if the arrow meets the guy?

Does any theory besides string have a smallest distance?

Heh.. eh...

-Spencer :rolleyes:

You Mods might want to move this I think. Sorry for that.
 
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is this some colorful explanation of a limit...? for example a basic one limit of (1/2)^n as n goes to infinity? am i missing something...?
 
As the arrow approaches the target, the atoms of the arrow try to "mingle" with the atoms of the target. They have a higher kinetic energy, so they succeed in doing so.
They repel the atoms of target, make space for themselves and this force of repulsion acts through the electric field. So, the force carrier is photon.
 
One of Zeno's paradoxes. It has nothing to do with "force particles". It shows that the the arrow must cross an infinite number of "positions" to go any where, but the tacit assumption that that cannot be done in a finite time is incorrect.
 
Zeno's paradaox:Paradox is only there if we believe that all infinite series can't be finite.But that is false.So ultimately there is no paradox.
 
Ok, I bet you to prove this. I fire you an arrow and you begin to run. If you win, I will pay you 1000 $.
 
You're on!

Awesome explanation for the photon.

For Zeno's paradox: thanks.
 
poolwin2001 said:
Zeno's paradaox:Paradox is only there if we believe that all infinite series can't be finite.

You probably mean "can't add up to some finite number" (i.e. converge) (?)

I got this written in the introduction to the chapter on sequences of my real analysis textbook. I believe it is how Zeno actually formulated his paradox! Thought I'd share it.

"Achille is initially 100 m apart from a turtle that he is pursuing. He runs 10 times faster then the turtle. When Achille will be at the point where the turtle was initially, it will be 10 m apart from Achille. Then it will be 1 m, 10 cm, 1 cm, ... apart. He will never catch up with it." :smile:

Here's another paradox that is fun: Let S be the serie defined by

[tex]S=1+2+4+8+16+...[/tex]

Then

[tex]S=1+2(1+2+4+8+16+...)=1+2S \Leftrightarrow S=-1[/tex]

So this sum of positive numbers is negative.
 
quasar987 -- Just goes to show that you can do most anything with a divergent series.

Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 

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