Starlite: revolutionary material?

gravenewworld

or a hoax?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...the-world.html

The defence establishment was watching. In July that year, Ward was invited to the British Atomic Weapons Establishment at Foulness, and the egg went nuclear. 'They'd been trying to get something to withstand a nuclear flash for 45 years, and we did it in five minutes.' Ward was reluctant to take part at first. 'I was happy with my egg. It was just a challenge and I didn't want to lose.' This was a different league. Starlite-coated eggs were subjected to light-energy sources that simulated a nuclear flash, equivalent to a temperature of 10,000 C. 'They did it twice and it was still there. Charred, but intact.' The Foulness equipment couldn't keep up. 'I said to one scientist, "Are we doing all right?", and he burst out laughing. He said, "Normally, we do a test every couple of hours because we have to wait for it to cool down. We're doing it every 10 minutes, and it's sat there laughing at us."' Most materials vaporise beyond 2,000 C. Pure carbon, which has the highest melting point of all elements, melts at 3,500 C. Starlite was withstanding temperatures and forces that physics and thermodynamics dictated it shouldn't. Even with tests from unquestionable authorities like AWE, people were sceptical. 'Some people called me a shyster. But they are blinkered. We've got video: We can show you.'

Seems there was only 1 post on PF in 2004 on the subject, but it seems to be resurfacing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxqFyDugqs4

What happened to it? Is it a hoax?

Ryan_m_b

Quoting from the wiki article on starlite;

Ward has allowed various organizations such as the Atomic Weapons Establishment and ICI to conduct tests on samples, but he has not allowed them to retain samples for fear of reverse-engineering.

Though Ward has claimed discussions with various organizations such as NASA, as of May 2009 there appears to have been no commercialization of Starlite.

Tests have shown that Ward's discovery could revolutionize many areas such as defense, space exploration, personal safety and aviation.^{[citation needed]}

it is said to contain a variety of (organic) polymers and co-polymers with both organic and inorganic additives, including borates and small quantities of ceramics and other special barrier ingredients

Colour me sceptical but a material capable of not only withstanding tens of thousands of degrees but radiating that heat away quickly that was made by an "amateur chemist and former hairdresser" who won't let people know the composition and who created this magic material decades ago but it hasn't surfaced in everyday life since seems to fit the bill of a hoax. As for the material itself it is said to be "90% organic". I highly doubt that any "bio-polymer" could withstand temperatures ~3x higher than that of pure diamond.

Now I could be wrong but as with all extraordinary claims, especially ones like this that follow the simple pattern of "genius in shed, miracle product, science can't explain it, would you like to invest?" I won't believe a word of it until I see some peer-reviewed work by actual scientists, or alternatively when NASA does start coating it's rockets with it. It seems highly unlikely that a material like this could be knocked up by an amateur in his shed and not patented or snapped up by some investor. It say's on the wiki page (and on the page for the inventor, Ward) that the material has never taken off because Ward has always insisted on 51% of the profits and has never given anyone and samples to "reverse engineer". If no one can have samples then the only "evidence" are his videos and in this day and age who is going to believe that?

It would be an awful shame if this material was real but bad business sense and paranoia on behalf of the owner (who could have just filed a patent) has prevented it's use. As I have said already I remain highly sceptical.

EDIT: P.s. the reason it may be resurfacing is that the inventor, Maurice Ward died a few weeks ago. Apparently he took the "secret composition" to his grave.

gravenewworld

Well you know as much about it as I do. There's very little info on it out there from what I can tell.

Nik_2213

Uh, don't forget the Apollo Command Modules' heat-shields used a phenolic-epoxy resin as the ablative fill in a glass-fibre matrix. That's close to ~ 90% 'organic'. The Soyuz equivalent is ebonite, glass fibre and carbon. The Chinese have reportedly used oak wood...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_cone

FWIW, diamond would be a very poor heat-shield as it transmits infra-red well and is an excellent heat conductor !!
http://www.crystran.co.uk/diamond-cubic-carbon-c.htm

Ryan_m_b

Quote by Nik_2213

Uh, don't forget the Apollo Command Modules' heat-shields used a phenolic-epoxy resin as the ablative fill in a glass-fibre matrix. That's close to ~ 90% 'organic'. The Soyuz equivalent is ebonite, glass fibre and carbon. The Chinese have reportedly used oak wood...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_cone

I was more reacting to the notion of organic polymers which to me brings connotations of proteins, carbohydrates, DNA etc though that could just be the biologist in me.

Everything about Starlite reads like a hoax, the inclusion of a word that sounds technical whilst giving away nothing fits the bill.

FWIW, diamond would be a very poor heat-shield as it transmits infra-red well and is an excellent heat conductor !!
http://www.crystran.co.uk/diamond-cubic-carbon-c.htm

FWIW? I wasn't using diamond as an example of a heat shield but of a comparison between the melting temperatures of pure diamond and the aforementioned biopolymers.

Nik_2213

I may be mistaken, but I think I saw a demonstration of that material on live UK TV some years ago: A layer of gooey white stuff was painted onto a support and left to dry. A powerful blowtorch was then played on the white stuff, which charred slightly, but did not transmit the heat...

I suppose the recipe for Starlite will now enter urban legend beside that for Greek Fire and Red Mercury...

Ryan_m_b

Quote by Nik_2213

I may be mistaken, but I think I saw a demonstration of that material on live UK TV some years ago: A layer of gooey white stuff was painted onto a support and left to dry. A powerful blowtorch was then played on the white stuff, which charred slightly, but did not transmit the heat...

I suppose the recipe for Starlite will now enter urban legend beside that for Greek Fire and Red Mercury...

Meh, people like Uri Geller get on TV all the time. I'll consider it when I see some peer-reviewed studies.

Nik_2213

This was, IIRC, live on BBC TV's 'Tomorrow's World' weekly Sci/Tech report. A tad gee-whizz, but exactly what the inventor claimed...

Of course, if the inventor is not prepared to patent or otherwise reveal the recipe, getting any independent study is going to be hard...

I suppose the same issues apply to the Italian team who are claiming some weird effect from passing hydrogen over a 'black box' catalyst. They say it generates lots of excess heat, but...
===

'diamond'

Sorry, Ryan, I misread your intent. Anyway, a diamond won't withstand oxidising heat...

Ryan_m_b

Quote by Nik_2213

Of course, if the inventor is not prepared to patent or otherwise reveal the recipe, getting any independent study is going to be hard...

Well he's dead now so no chance to reveal it if it was real. Either way the guy was an immoral tool, either it was a hoax and he was wasting everybody's time or it was true and because he was so wrapped up in the bizzare idea of getting 51% profits (why not patent it and get all the royalties the law affords you) that he's done mankind a disservice.

Though my money is on hoax

Jack_O

I find the tomorrow's world video the most compelling evidence (sound is very low but is there):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4nnLP--uTI

Why would tomorrow's world get in on a hoax? Possibly bribery or wanting to make the show more interesting, but how would they have done it. An unprotected egg pops instantly when a blow torch is applied. At the end of the video he picks up an egg being blow torched, places the exposed face on his palm and breaks it into a bowl all with no camera cuts. Are there other coatings which would allow the egg to survive for a brief time, so that they could have placed a fresh one in front of the blowtorch just before the camera pans back to it?

Ryan_m_b

Quote by Jack_O

I find the tomorrow's world video the most compelling evidence (sound is very low but is there)

No TV show is ever evidence. What would constitute evidence is if samples of this material could be sent to anyone who asks so that peer-reviewed research can be conducted.

Jack_O

I'm assuming for the moment that starlite is a hoax, but it still captures interest due to the potential of such a material. Debunking the video and/or finding some trickery involved would make it easier to forget about.

Evo

Quote by Jack_O

I'm assuming for the moment that starlite is a hoax, but it still captures interest due to the potential of such a material. Debunking the video and/or finding some trickery involved would make it easier to forget about.

First there has to be physical proof provided. Right now there is nothing to debunk.

*moejoe15*

If this wasn't a hoax and he didn't know he was going to die, he would have left a sample around or something written somewhere. He would also probably have the materials around too. If nothing ever comes to light I would say it's a hoax.

Similar discussions for: Starlite: revolutionary material?
Thread	Forum	Replies
The most revolutionary technology	General Engineering	19
Scientist and Active Revolutionary? Is that possible?	General Discussion	14
Revolutionary research on using tools	General Discussion	5
Revolutionary physics	General Discussion	15
Revolutionary New Theory of Jibber-Jabber?	General Physics	9

gravenewworld	Well you know as much about it as I do. There's very little info on it out there from what I can tell.

Nik_2213	I may be mistaken, but I think I saw a demonstration of that material on live UK TV some years ago: A layer of gooey white stuff was painted onto a support and left to dry. A powerful blowtorch was then played on the white stuff, which charred slightly, but did not transmit the heat... I suppose the recipe for Starlite will now enter urban legend beside that for Greek Fire and Red Mercury...

Jack_O	I'm assuming for the moment that starlite is a hoax, but it still captures interest due to the potential of such a material. Debunking the video and/or finding some trickery involved would make it easier to forget about.

moejoe15	If this wasn't a hoax and he didn't know he was going to die, he would have left a sample around or something written somewhere. He would also probably have the materials around too. If nothing ever comes to light I would say it's a hoax.