Does length contraction apply to all objects, big and small?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kernelpenguin
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Particles
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the applicability of length contraction in special relativity to both elementary particles and macroscopic objects. Participants explore the implications of length contraction at relativistic speeds, questioning whether the phenomenon observed in particles extends to larger structures composed of these particles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that an electron traveling at near the speed of light would appear pancake-like due to length contraction, raising questions about the implications for macroscopic objects composed of such particles.
  • Another participant questions the existence of experimental evidence for macroscopic objects undergoing flattening at relativistic speeds, noting that clouds of particles have been observed to be flattened.
  • A participant elaborates on the mechanics of how particles might deform and questions whether this deformation would lead to macroscopic changes in shape, considering the relative motion of particles.
  • One response argues that Lorentz transformations apply universally to all measurements of length and time, asserting that the same principles that apply to elementary particles should also apply to macroscopic objects.
  • It is noted that length contraction is only observable from a frame that sees the object moving, implying that an observer at rest with respect to the object would not detect any change in shape.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether length contraction applies uniformly to both microscopic and macroscopic objects. There is no consensus on the implications of length contraction for macroscopic bodies, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining the boundary between macroscopic and microscopic objects in the context of relativity, as well as the dependence on the observer's frame of reference for detecting length contraction.

kernelpenguin
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
I was thinking about relativity after a lecture the other day and I came across something, well, odd.

Imagine an electron flying at near c. It would look like a pancake that doesn't much care for aerodynamics. How much it resembles a pancake would pop out of the Lorentz equations for its contraction as its speed nears c. So we can say that a particle that is by all means spherical when it is at rest would end up being contracted to zero length in the direction it's traveling should it ever reach c.

The contraction, therefore, applies to elementary particles. But what makes people think it also applies to macroscopic objects? A macroscopic object is a bunch of microscopic objects. So let the contraction apply to tiny parts of you as you near the speed of light. I'm pretty sure it won't bother me if all the particles in my body take on a slightly more flattened shape. Why should my shape change because of this?

And most importantly, is there experimental evidence for macroscopic objects flattening like this as they near relativistic speeds?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
And most importantly, is there experimental evidence for macroscopic objects flattening like this as they near relativistic speeds?


What macroscopic objects traveling at relativistic speeds are there? We have clouds of particles at such speeds, and they are flattened. The effect has to be allowed for in designing targets.
 
Hm. What I mean is this. If there are a lot of particles in a row, going at c. Like this:

oooooo

Then they will be flattened individually:

| | | | | |

Yet, why should they get closer to one another as their shapes deform and thus contribute to the macroscopic deformation of whatever object they constitute?

Furthermore, for such a deformation to occur as is predicted (and observed, I guess), all particles except the first one have to move faster to catch up with the first one, no?

Where does the border between macroscopic bodies and separate microscopic particles go with respect to relativity?
 
Last edited:
kernelpenguin said:
The contraction, therefore, applies to elementary particles. But what makes people think it also applies to macroscopic objects?
What makes you think the Lorentz transformations only apply to observations of elementary particles? The LT apply to all measurements of length and time between moving frames.

A macroscopic object is a bunch of microscopic objects. So let the contraction apply to tiny parts of you as you near the speed of light. I'm pretty sure it won't bother me if all the particles in my body take on a slightly more flattened shape. Why should my shape change because of this?
The "flattening" of your body surely won't bother you, since you won't be able to detect it. Length contraction is only observable from a frame that sees you moving. To you, your shape doesn't change. The same reasoning that allows you to apply length contraction to the particles comprising your body would equally apply to the macroscopic dimensions of your body.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 63 ·
3
Replies
63
Views
6K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 60 ·
3
Replies
60
Views
6K