What Natural Phenomena Produce Coherent Light in Lasers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the natural phenomena that could produce coherent light similar to that of manmade lasers. Participants explore various theoretical and observational aspects, including the conditions necessary for stimulated emission and the existence of natural lasers in different environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that stimulated emission is necessary for coherent light, but achieving a large number of coherent photons requires specific conditions that may not be present in nature.
  • One participant mentions the possibility of a natural CO2 laser in the Martian atmosphere, citing a claim about a sustained population inversion and the potential for creating a cavity with mirrors.
  • Another participant points out that stimulated emission is also observed in the microwave region, referencing "maser spots" as examples of natural phenomena producing coherent light.
  • Starlight is discussed as a source of partially coherent light, with some arguing it has good transverse coherence but lacks the longitudinal coherence characteristic of lasers.
  • Speculation exists regarding "laser stars," a concept proposed in the 1970s, suggesting that some stars may emit laser radiation naturally, with implications for quasars.
  • Cosmic masers are mentioned as large excited gas clouds that amplify radio signals, and there is speculation about the Earth's atmosphere potentially acting as a laser under certain conditions.
  • References to the Mars Pathfinder's discovery of a natural CO2 laser in the Martian atmosphere are provided, indicating ongoing interest in this phenomenon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the existence and nature of natural lasers, with no consensus reached on specific phenomena or their characteristics. The discussion includes both supportive and skeptical perspectives on various claims.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific definitions of coherence and stimulated emission, and the discussion includes speculative ideas that have not been empirically validated.

Loren Booda
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Besides manmade lasers, from what phenomenon might the coherent light of naturally occurring lasers originate?
 
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It just takes stimulated emission to get two coherent photons. However, to get *heaps* of coherent photons (ie a laser beam) requires some very careful construction. It is unlikely that there are many natural environments in which there is both some gain medium with a sustained population inversion and a stable cavity resonator.

I have been told, however, that the CO2 atmosphere of Mars sustains a population inversion significant enough such that if one established a cavity in the atmosphere (with mirrors) you would get an insta-laser. :smile:

Of course, the academic in question may have been pulling my leg...

Kane O'Donnell
 
Stimulated emission is observed in the microwave region by radio astronomers. You can google for "maser spots".
 
The only natural source of "partially" coherent light that I know of is starlight. Optical coherence theory says that farther away from a source the more coherent the light becomes. This is why we can do interometry experiments with starlight.
 
Starlight has good _transverse_ coherence. But it lacks the longitudinal or time-coherence (narrow linewidth) that is characteristic of a laser.
 
there's some speculation about the existence of laser stars , stars that can emit laser radiation naturally. the idea of lasers stars was proposed by Varshni in the mid 1970s. The laser star hypothesis implies that all or the most part of quasars are laser stars
 
Cosmic Masers, Earth Atmosphere

I believe that there are 'cosmic masers' which are essentially large excited gas clouds which amplify radio signals that go through them.

There was also speculation that part of the Earth's atmosphere (ionosphere?) could get exited by solar radiation, and act as a laser with radio signal.
 
I believe that there are 'cosmic masers'
Another related concept is the so-called "Megamaser galaxies"
 
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Loren Booda said:
Besides manmade lasers, from what phenomenon might the coherent light of naturally occurring lasers originate?

Mars Pathfinder discovered a single pass natural CO2 laser in the Martian atmosphere. Mechanism described here with references:
http://home.achilles.net/~ypvsj/history/mars.html :bugeye:

Creator
 

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