How do I prove the existence of a limit using the definition of limit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the existence of a limit for a given sequence using the definition of a limit. Participants explore methods for determining whether the sequence converges or diverges, focusing on the implications of convergence and the characteristics of subsequences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a specific sequence and expresses uncertainty about how to apply the definition of limit to prove its existence or non-existence.
  • Another participant suggests that there is no general solution for finding limits of sequences and hints that the sequence in question may not converge.
  • There is a discussion about whether to prove the existence of a limit or to show that it does not exist, highlighting the lack of a definitive method for such proofs.
  • A participant introduces a condition related to the differences between consecutive terms of the sequence, suggesting that if the sequence converges, these differences should tend to zero.
  • Another participant emphasizes that if a sequence converges, it must have a unique limit and that any subsequence must also converge to the same limit, proposing this as a method to analyze the original sequence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach proving the existence of a limit. While some suggest methods for showing non-convergence, others focus on the implications of convergence and subsequences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference theorems and conditions related to convergence without establishing them as universally accepted or previously covered in their studies, indicating potential gaps in shared knowledge.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in mathematical analysis, particularly those studying sequences and limits, may find the discussion relevant.

twoflower
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Hi all, my task is to check, whether the given sequence has a limit and if yes, count it. We have to do it using the definition of limit.

So I have eg. this sequence:

[tex] (-1)^n \left( \frac{1}{10} - \frac{1}{n} \right)[/tex]

I know how the definition is, but I don't know how to use it for the purpose wanted. I just wrote

[tex] \left| A - (-1)^n \left( \frac{1}{10} - \frac{1}{n} \right) \right| < \epsilon , \forall \epsilon > 0[/tex]

But how to prove that the sequence has or has not limit? Should I just try to prove existence of the limit, or, on the contrary, should I try to prove that the limit doesn't exist? What is the general recommended method, when we have to prove it from definition of limit?

Thank you all for any answer.
 
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There is no general solution for finding the limits of sequences. In fact, there are a goodly number of outstanding conjectures that the limit of a particular sequence is some value. In this particular case, it should be possible to show that the sequence does not tend to a limit.

Hint: If the sequence [tex]\{s_n\}[/tex] has a limit converges, then the sequence[tex]\script{S}_n=s_n-s_{n+1}[/tex] will tend to zero.
 
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NateTG said:
In this particular case, it should be possible to show that the sequence does not tend to a limit.

Well, so I always have to decide, whether I will try to prove the existence of the limit, or the opposite?

NateTG said:
Hint: If the sequence [tex]\{s_n\}[/tex] has a limit, then the sequence[tex]\script{S}_n=s_n-s_{n+1}[/tex] will tend to zero.
Is it a general theorem? If not, when can I use it? I'm asking because I think we didn't have this theorem so far...
 
twoflower said:
Is it a general theorem? If not, when can I use it? I'm asking because I think we didn't have this theorem so far...

If you replace 'has a limit' with 'converges' (which is what I should have written it initially), then it's generally true.

Consider that if [tex]|s_n-A| < \epsilon[/tex] then [tex]s_n \in (A-\epsilon,A+\epsilon)[/tex]. Now, if
the sequence converges, then given any [tex]\epsilon > 0[/tex] it's possible to find [tex]N_\epsilon[/tex] so that [tex]n>N_\epsilon \Rightarrow |s_n - A| < \frac{\epsilon}{2}[/tex]
so
[tex]n > N_\epsilon \Rightarrow s_n \in (A-\frac{\epsilon}{2},A+{\epsilon)}{2}[/tex]
This means that the 'tail' of the sequence is contained in an interval with a length (diameter really) of [tex]\epsilon[/tex].
So, cleary for
[tex]n_1,n_2 > N_\epsilon[/tex] we have [tex]|s_{n_1}-s_{n_2}| < \epsilon[/tex]
and,
[tex]|s_{n_1}-s_{n_2}| = |s_{n_1}-s_{n_2}-0| < \epsilon[/tex]
So the differences go to zero if the sequence coverges.

The notion of the difference between elements in the tail of a squence going to zero if the sequence coverges is important in real analysis:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CauchySequence.html
 
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If a sequence converges, the limit is unique and every subsequence also converges to that limit.

So, if you're sequence has two subsequences tending to distinct limits then it cannot itself converge.

Can you see how that helps in your example above?
 

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