Exploring Fields: Electromagnetic, Strong, Weak, Gravitational & Higgs

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Marjan
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Fields
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of various fundamental fields in physics, including electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravitational, and Higgs fields. Participants explore concepts related to quantum field theory (QFT), the unification of forces, and the properties of these fields from both classical and quantum perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that all fundamental fields can be described in terms of static and dynamic states, with examples provided for electromagnetic and gravitational fields.
  • Others argue that the classification of forces and their mediating particles is not entirely accurate, suggesting corrections to the initial claims about the strong and weak forces.
  • A participant mentions that QFT is a unification of quantum mechanics and special relativity, allowing for the creation of particles from energy under certain conditions, referencing the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
  • There is a discussion about the Higgs field and its role in providing mass to particles, with some participants noting its presence in the vacuum state and its implications for gauge bosons.
  • One participant questions the applicability of QFT to curved spacetime, while another asserts that curvature is negligible in QFT, leading to a debate about the validity of calculations in curved spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of fields and the applicability of QFT to gravitational interactions. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial claims regarding static and dynamic fields, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between QFT and curved spacetime, as well as the distinction between real and virtual particles in the context of field interactions.

Marjan
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Fields (all of them:)

(1) Electromagnetic - photons
(2) Strong - gluons
(3) Weak - weak bosons
(4) Gravitational - gravitons
(5) Higgs - higgs bosons

We have unification under SM, called QFT. But how far that unification really goes?! Is it "only" a mathematical form of calculating all fields on the same procedure?

I am asking because we know that those fields are (quantum view) totally different, we might say they have nothing in common. Different particles have different properties...


Can we talk about additional force -> Higgs force !? I think so. I guess nobody mention it, because particle has not been discovered yet (we hope on LHC 2008), but hey - nobody saw graviton either... ?!


Next interesting thing are fields itself. Let me just ask for starters if my view if correct. (i will start reading QFT shortly, but not just yet...).
In QFT perspective we can describe every field as static or dynamic. For example:
- static EM field: electric field is produced by still charge, it emits virtual photons
- dynamic EM field: EM field is produced by acceleration of charge, it emits real photons
- static gravity field: curved space-time is condition of still mass, it emits virtual gravitons
- dynamic gravity field: space-time disturbance motion is produced by acceleration of mass, it emits real gravitons
...
and analogous for every field! Is that view correct? I see certain beauty about it...
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Someone agrees with that? Is it too far? Maybe too clumsy written? :-p
 
Marjan said:
(1) Electromagnetic - photons
(2) Strong - gluons
(3) Weak - weak bosons
(4) Gravitational - gravitons
(5) Higgs - higgs bosons

We have unification under SM, called QFT. But how far that unification really goes?! Is it "only" a mathematical form of calculating all fields on the same procedure?

QFT is the unification of QM and special relativity. This means that for example particles can be created out of nothing (vacuum) when enough energy is available. In QM energy and time are uncertain. In special relativity we know that E=mc². So suppose that we have a lot of energy, then we can say that this energy is mass via E=mc² and it therefore represents particles that exist for a very short while. Why very short ? Well, because of the Heisenberg-uncertainty : product of uncertainty on E and t is constant. So if E is big, then ta has to be small. The created particles are also referred to as virtual particles. They can become real for a short while when enough energy is available as stated before. Virtual means that these particles can never be the end result of an interaction, they are just an intermediate step during some interaction.

I am asking because we know that those fields are (quantum view) totally different, we might say they have nothing in common. Different particles have different properties...

What do you mean? Besides there is something wrong with your classification.

1) electromagnetism mediated by photons
2) strong force mediated by gluons (and residual strong force is mediated by pions)
3) weak force mediated by intermediate vector bosons
4) gravitation mediated by gravitons

Gravitation is NOT described by COFT but by General Relativity. Attepmts to unify the two are string theory and LQG.

Can we talk about additional force -> Higgs force !? I think so. I guess nobody mention it, because particle has not been discovered yet (we hope on LHC 2008), but hey - nobody saw graviton either... ?!

The Higgs field is a property of the Higgs-mechanism. This field is always present in the vacuum-state like some kind of background. It makes sure that the vacuum is degenerated so that spontaneous breakdown of symmetry can occur yielding the mass of gauge-bosons like the vector bosons, and the particles like quarks. Only the photon does not interact with the Higgs-field because the U(1)-symmetry of EM is NEVER broken. This means that after the breakdown of symmetry, when nature has "chosen" one of the possible vacuum-states, this state still exhibits the U(1)-symmetry. Thus, a photon is always massless.

You can look at mass as the coupling constant of the Higgs-interaction.


Next interesting thing are fields itself. Let me just ask for starters if my view if correct. (i will start reading QFT shortly, but not just yet...).
In QFT perspective we can describe every field as static or dynamic. For example:
- static EM field: electric field is produced by still charge, it emits virtual photons
- dynamic EM field: EM field is produced by acceleration of charge, it emits real photons
- static gravity field: curved space-time is condition of still mass, it emits virtual gravitons
- dynamic gravity field: space-time disturbance motion is produced by acceleration of mass, it emits real gravitons
...
and analogous for every field! Is that view correct? I see certain beauty about it...

No, certainly NOT. First of all you cannot talk about curvature of spacetime in QFT. Gravity is not included in the standard model. Nevertheless, if you want to do this, then you are going to have to move to the string and LQG-forum.

I explained to you the difference between real and virtual photons and this distinction between static and dynamic field are not made in QFT. You are thinking to much in classical EM-terms...

For example : if two electrons interact they do so by interchanging virtual photons. The fact whether they move or not is irrelevant.


regards
marlon
 
marlon said:
First of all you cannot talk about curvature of spacetime in QFT

Hmm... I was wondering about this. I know there are issues that come up when you go from Minkowski to a curved spacetime, but I thought there were still some interesting calculations you can do on a curved spacetime. (this assumption is based completely on my school offering a class called "QFT on curved spacetime" and since I haven't taken it yet I am not completely sure)
Thanks,
Norm
 
Norman said:
Hmm... I was wondering about this. I know there are issues that come up when you go from Minkowski to a curved spacetime, but I thought there were still some interesting calculations you can do on a curved spacetime.

Curved spacetime is locally flat, so...

(this assumption is based completely on my school offering a class called "QFT on curved spacetime" and since I haven't taken it yet I am not completely sure)
Thanks,
Norm

No problem, the fact is that the curvature of spacetime due to present massess is negligible in QFT.

regards
marlon
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Is the photon field a vector field and a gauge field?
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Undergrad Difference between an electromagnetic field and a photon?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
Undergrad Summary of the Universe (2019 version)
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Graduate Higgs vs Graviton: Causes of Mass & Gravity
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Graduate Is the Higgs Field Responsible for Microscopic Gravitational Effects?
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
Graduate Mediating particles of forces.
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad Thinking about the static electric field in terms of QFT
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Graduate Higgs inflation and quadratic gravity
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Undergrad How Do Quantum Field Theory and Quantum Loop Gravity Explain the Quantum World?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad How prone is a photon to interacting with uncharged structureless particles?
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K