- #1
- 8,252
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Putin Announces New Nuclear Missile System
- Context: News
- Thread starter Ivan Seeking
- Start date
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion centers around Russia's announcement of a new nuclear missile system, as stated by President Vladimir Putin, and its implications for international relations, particularly with the United States. Participants explore themes of military power, democracy, and historical parallels with past geopolitical tensions.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Exploratory
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Putin's announcement of a new nuclear missile system is seen as a potential signal to the U.S. regarding missile defense initiatives, though details about the system remain unclear.
- Some participants express skepticism about Russia's military capabilities, questioning whether the Kremlin can afford such an expensive weapon.
- There are critiques of U.S.-Russia relations, with some arguing that the U.S. ignores Russia's authoritarian tendencies while seeking alliances against terrorism.
- Concerns are raised about the erosion of democracy in Russia under Putin, with comparisons made to historical figures like Stalin.
- Participants discuss the implications of allying with authoritarian regimes for strategic purposes, suggesting a historical pattern of the U.S. supporting dictatorships when convenient.
- Some express resentment towards the characterization of communism as inherently evil, indicating a broader debate about political ideologies.
- There are conflicting views on the nature of democracy in Russia, with some arguing that there was never a true democracy to erode, while others suggest Putin's actions mirror those of past dictators.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
The discussion features multiple competing views regarding the implications of Putin's announcement and the nature of U.S.-Russia relations. Participants do not reach a consensus on the characterization of democracy in Russia or the morality of U.S. alliances with authoritarian regimes.
Contextual Notes
Participants reference historical contexts, such as WWII and the Cold War, to draw parallels with current events. There are also mentions of specific political figures and their roles in shaping international relations, which may reflect personal biases and interpretations.
- #2
franznietzsche
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Russia/US Relations for the Past 4 years:
Russia : Hey Americans! We're still important dammit! Pay attention to me! I could still wipe you of the face of the planet! I still matter dammit!
America : Gotta get the terrorists...
Russia : Hey if you aren't careful we could destroy you, cause we're important you know!
America : Yeah, yeah whatever. Gotta get the terrorists...
Russia : Hey Americans! We're still important dammit! Pay attention to me! I could still wipe you of the face of the planet! I still matter dammit!
America : Gotta get the terrorists...
Russia : Hey if you aren't careful we could destroy you, cause we're important you know!
America : Yeah, yeah whatever. Gotta get the terrorists...
- #3
Smurf
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Once again franz your understanding of international relations astounds me to no end, I bask in your intelligence and comical flair.
- #4
Polly
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.Seriously, can anyone blame Putin? Even I a Chinese who is just minding her own business, switched from a stout Independent-Taiwan supporter to a unification supporter since the re-election of Bush. Maybe it is America that is the Axis of Evil to some of us?
- #5
Zantra
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Polly said:
Seriously, can anyone blame Putin? Even I a Chinese who is just minding her own business, switched from a stout Independent-Taiwan supporter to a unification supporter since the re-election of Bush. Maybe it is America that is the Axis of Evil to some of us?
Not America, just George Dubya Bush.
Everyone always generalizes us. Meanwhile china sits over there behind the iron curtain of communism. I'm American, but I don't typify the stereotypes. Nor do a lot of americans. Should I assume since you're chinese your main mode of transportation is a rickshaw?
Look at each person individually. No 2 are alike.
- #6
franznietzsche
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Smurf said:
Not entirely sure whether that was sarcasm, or serious. Oh well,i'll just assume it was seriosu since that is easier to respond to nicely.
- #7
Smurf
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it was a little bit of both really.
- #8
wasteofo2
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In Russia, Vladamir Putin is slowly dissolving Democracy. He eliminated the people's right to vote for local governors and representatives in Russian Parliment, and has been jailing dissidents and political opponents. He's gaining more and more power, and threatening to return back to a USSR style government.
MEANWHILE, back in the states, George Bush pursues new nuclear weapons while simeltaneously saying he's trying to end nuclear proliferation.
SOOOOO, to keep up with America, Putin pushes for the development of new long-range nuclear weapons that could possibly penetrate our multi-billion-dollar missile defense system.
It's all happening all over again, just like with WWII and the Cold War. We need Russia's help to fight the terrorists (as we did with the Nazis), so we'll ignore how threatening they are to us, and how Democracy is being erroded by Putin (as it was by Stalin), and ally with them. Then Russia will turn around and be a dictatorial threat to America again.
People are fighting and dying for a stable, fair, democracy in Iraq, and yet Russia (who's got WAY more ability to harm us than Iraq ever did/will), our ally in the war on terror, is reverting back to a dictatorship, and that's just fine.
MEANWHILE, back in the states, George Bush pursues new nuclear weapons while simeltaneously saying he's trying to end nuclear proliferation.
SOOOOO, to keep up with America, Putin pushes for the development of new long-range nuclear weapons that could possibly penetrate our multi-billion-dollar missile defense system.
It's all happening all over again, just like with WWII and the Cold War. We need Russia's help to fight the terrorists (as we did with the Nazis), so we'll ignore how threatening they are to us, and how Democracy is being erroded by Putin (as it was by Stalin), and ally with them. Then Russia will turn around and be a dictatorial threat to America again.
People are fighting and dying for a stable, fair, democracy in Iraq, and yet Russia (who's got WAY more ability to harm us than Iraq ever did/will), our ally in the war on terror, is reverting back to a dictatorship, and that's just fine.
- #9
Smurf
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No wonder him and Bush are getting along so well.wasteofo2 said:
- #10
franznietzsche
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wasteofo2 said:
I hate to burst your bubble, Stalin didn't erode any democracy. There was no democracy in Russia. There was the Czars, The Provisional Government (as close to democracy as it got until the 90s),and then the Bolsheviks. There was no democracy for Stalin to erode.
And yeah, dictatorships that work with us are always ok. Why do you think we supported Chiang Kai-shek, former dictator of taiwan? Because he fought the commies. that's all. Human rights violations? We let him get away with it because he was convenient to our cause.
We've never had a problem allying with demons, so longas they were fighting against the devil with us.
(For the more thick: that was a metaphor, try not to take it too literally.)
- #11
Smurf
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I resent the implication that Communism is inherently evil.
- #12
franznietzsche
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Smurf said:
My metaphor was meant to be more broad than that. The devil = enemy of the moment, demon = lesser enemyof the moment.
Hence why i said try not to take it too literally.
- #13
Smurf
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Okay, I've met too many people who have that mind set to not consider that conclusion though.
- #14
franznietzsche
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Smurf said:
Well, i mostly have that mind set. Hate socialism in general.
But that was not what i meant to imply in the metaphor.
- #15
wasteofo2
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franznietzsche said:
Can't belieive I wrote that Stalin eroded Democracy, musta been operating on too little sleee. I meant to say something along the lines that Putin's slowly getting to where Stalin was, came out wrong.
I realize we work with dictatorships all the time and do tons of things that come back and bite us in the end, I just think it's especially Naive to work with a dictatorship whose leader was previously an employee of the KGB and is currently building advanced nuclear weapons for the sole purpose of being able to penetrate our missile defense system.franznietzsche said:
Though I guess we have a long precendence of this sort of thing in America. For instance, Reagan decided to arm/train/support Osama Bin Laden and his guys, who hated America just as much as the Soviets. Reagan also installed Saddam, then his (Reagan's) Vice President had to go to war with him.
- #16
tumor
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I'm very happy what Putin is doing in Russia, otherwise Russia and its naturall resources, any remaining strategic industriess, pipelines, ports etc, could end up being sold out for almost nothing to the western bankers and milions of people loose meager wages.
And to hell with your ****ing democracy! do we here in N .America have democracy? my ass we do!
Russians have some honor left and they don't want to be dictated what to do by west and especcially USA.Russia is not Poland or Czech Republic.
Good job Putin!
PS. what you guys think was the deal with that Yokoil and arrest of its CEO Khodorovsky?
Putin could not let more fifth columnists start to gnaw on Russia from within.
And to hell with your ****ing democracy! do we here in N .America have democracy? my ass we do!
Russians have some honor left and they don't want to be dictated what to do by west and especcially USA.Russia is not Poland or Czech Republic.
Good job Putin!
PS. what you guys think was the deal with that Yokoil and arrest of its CEO Khodorovsky?
Putin could not let more fifth columnists start to gnaw on Russia from within.
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- #17
Smurf
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I don't like Putin but I have to agree with Tumor, he's defending Russia from Western Capitalism.