Need some help with nonlinear integration

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mattm
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integration Nonlinear
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nonlinear integration of the second-order differential equation governing the motion of a pendulum, specifically the equation y" = -(g/L)sin(y). Participants explore methods for automating pendulum motion in animation using realistic physics, addressing the challenges of solving this nonlinear equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses the need to understand nonlinear integration to automate pendulum motion in animation, indicating a lack of clarity on the subject.
  • Another participant suggests that nonlinear problems are best approached numerically and recommends the Runge-Kutta method for solving the equation.
  • A participant notes the intention to calculate large angle pendulum motions, stating that linearization is not an option due to the requirement of angles up to 180 degrees.
  • Another participant proposes integrating the equation once by multiplying it with y', leading to a derived expression for y'(t) that could aid in understanding the dynamics of the pendulum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that nonlinear problems require numerical methods, but there is no consensus on the best approach to take for large angle pendulum motion, as some suggest linearization while others reject it.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of nonlinear integration and the potential need for numerical methods, but does not resolve the specific mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the proposed solutions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in physics simulation, animation programming, or those seeking to understand nonlinear dynamics in mechanical systems.

mattm
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello

I study animation, and I wanted to make a script where I can automate pendulums in my scene with some kind of realistic physics, rather than animate them manually.

So 'right' I think, 'I need to go study some physics and maths' - but it wasnt as easy as I hoped, I've hit a wall, and it is the nonlinear integration of the second order D.E:

y" = -(g/L)sin(y)

So from my limited understanding, this equation is non-linear due to the absence of y', and because y is a function of sin.

Its seems the only hints I've been able to get is that integrating it is not a particually easy thing to do, with references only giving me parameters to enter into mathematics software for computation.The problem is, I essentially need to write my own software(script), and without understanding what is going on, I cant.

If I could get some better idea of what is involved, then I can decide if its going to be worth my while spending more time trying to do this now, or if I need a diploma in advanced mathematics first :)

thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Non linear problems are best dealt with numerically. If you must solve the nonlinear equation look into a Runga Kutta method. If you keep the oscillations of your pendulum small (< .2 rad or ~10deg) you can use the usual approach and let sin [itex]\Theta[/itex] = [itex]\Theta[/itex] then the problem is linear and easily solved.
 
Thankyou Integral, I will look into the Runga-Kutta method.

I would like to be able to calculate large angle pendulums, upto 180 degrees, so unfortunately(for me) I cannot linearise the equation.
 
You should, however, integrate once:
Multiply your equation with y':
[tex]y''y'=-\frac{g}{L}\sin(y)y'[/tex]
Integrated from t=0 to some arbitrary t-value, you get:
[tex]\frac{y'(t)^{2}}{2}=\frac{g}{L}(\cos(y(t))-cos(y(0))+\frac{y'(0)^{2}}{2}[/tex]
Or:
[tex]y'(t)=\pm\sqrt{y'(0)^{2}+2\frac{g}{L}(\cos(y(t))-cos(y(0))[/tex]
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K