Special relativity and Universe expansion.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of special relativity and the expansion of the universe, exploring the implications of distance on the speed of expansion and the relationship between these two theories. Participants examine whether objects can exceed the speed of light due to cosmic expansion and the theoretical limits of this expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether two bodies can reach or exceed the speed of light due to the universe's expansion, expressing uncertainty about the implications of this phenomenon.
  • Another participant clarifies that special relativity operates within a non-expanding Minkowski space, while general relativity, which includes the expansion of the universe, allows for recession velocities greater than the speed of light without violating the principles of relativity.
  • A different viewpoint is presented, suggesting that there are theoretical limits to the universe's expansion, referencing the Friedmann equations and the potential for a Big Crunch scenario, which implies a finite expansion.
  • One participant uses an analogy of a 2D world on an expanding sphere to illustrate how relative speeds can appear to increase due to the expansion, emphasizing the perspective of observers in such a scenario.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between special relativity and cosmic expansion, with some asserting that there are no limits to expansion while others argue for potential limits based on theoretical models. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks, including special relativity, general relativity, and the Friedmann equations, without reaching consensus on the implications of these theories regarding the speed of expansion and its limits.

mprm86
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I have heard that the Universe is expanding, and the longer is the distance between two bodies, so the greater will be the speed of expansion. So, my question is: If two bodies were far enough, so tehy could reach c or even go faster? (i guess there is no limit for Universe expansion). I know I´m not a genius, and i haven't discovered some paradox or somewhat, so, help me please and explain me what really happens. Thanks. :-p
 
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Hi, bienvenido
don't mix the concepts Special Relativity and Universe expansion, because Special Relativity is a theory that has as foreground a Minkowski space, that is a non-expanding space. The expansion can be modeled with General Relativity, that has Special Relativity as a special case. In GR, there are objects receding faster than c, because with Hubble Law
v=H*D
where D is proper distance, H the Hubble parameter, you can obtain recession velocities v greater than c. But there's no paradox because in the frame of reference of the observer there's no superluminal velocity observed. They are receding with spacetime, but their peculiar velocity inside spacetime remains subluminal
 
mprm86 said:
i guess there is no limit for Universe expansion Thanks. :-p
I think there is some thing wrong with that.
There are 3 versions of the expansion of the Universe according to Friedmann.1 of them states that we begin with Big BAng and finish with Big Crunch.Therefore, we definitely have the limit of the expansion(if the theory is right.)
 
Picture it this way: A 2d world on an expanding sphere.

According to any person on that world, everything else is getting farther away. Someone who starts off moving at 5 kph relative away from some other person, and doesn't accelerate afterwards, will observer the relative speed as actually increasing! (at least until they went all the way around the sphere and were actually moving towards)
 

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