Why do we consider time as the 4th dimension?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time as the fourth dimension, exploring its implications in physics, particularly in the context of spacetime. Participants examine the rationale behind considering time a dimension alongside the three spatial dimensions, questioning the conventions and definitions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that time is not inherently a dimension, suggesting that the classification of dimensions is dependent on perspective and context.
  • Others propose that time is considered a dimension because physics operates within a spacetime framework that requires four coordinates to describe events.
  • A participant questions the meaning of calling time a dimension without specifying what it is a dimension of, implying that this could lead to confusion.
  • One participant emphasizes that in certain problems, mass could be treated as a dimension, depending on the context, such as when mass varies with position.
  • Another viewpoint highlights that special relativity shows time's similarity to space, as different observers may perceive time and space differently, yet agree on spacetime intervals.
  • Some participants mention that without time, spatial dimensions lose meaning, as quantifying distance requires a temporal context.
  • A later reply suggests that while time is the fourth dimension of spacetime, other dimensions like density could be proposed in different contexts, though they may not yield significant insights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether time should be classified as the fourth dimension. There is no consensus, as some argue for its necessity in spacetime, while others challenge its classification and propose alternative dimensions based on different contexts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects varying interpretations of dimensionality, with participants noting that the definitions and implications of dimensions can change based on the specific problems being addressed. There is also an acknowledgment of the limitations of conventional definitions in capturing the complexity of physical phenomena.

TheDonk
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
Time is not the 4th dimension. Well... depends on perspective. Why do people say time is the 4th dimension? I know you can say it's a dimension and there are already 3. But why not say mass is a dimension? Each point in space has a certain mass. What's the difference? Einstein said it and it became convention? That better not be the reason :mad: :rolleyes:.
I think it would be best when describing time with space and need to call it a dimension to say something like, "If you use time as a dimension then..."
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I've said thsi before to say time is the foruth diemsnion is is some ways menaingless as your not saying what it is a dimensions of.

Of course the reason people say this is that we do physics in spacetime which has four dimensions and we may view time as one of them.
 
if time isn't a dimension, then what do you put in place of it when you describe an event?
 
It is a simple matter of mathematics. It requires 4 numbers to specify an event in Space/time. 3 spatial coordinates and the time at which the event occurred. It is not necessary to specify the mass. Notice that I am specifying a SPECIFIC type of problem, one dealing with SPACE/TIME events. In a different problem, one NOT dealing with space/time the meaning and number of dimensions may be entirely different.

If you were dealing with problem where mass was changing with position, you may well need a set of equations were mass is the forth dimension, but that would be a different problem, if fact if you were track your mass and position through out your life you would need 5 dimensions, 3 for your position,1 for the time and 1 for your mass.

Once again the number of dimensions of a system is the minimum number of points required to completely specify the state of that system.

To say that time is not a dimension of space/time is simply ludicrous.
 
Calling space 3 dimensional implies that the three quantities used to describe a point are similar. Thus 1 metre North is thought to be the same as 1 metre East - if you have a metre rule pointing North then you can turn it to point East. Equivalently, different observers may have different meanings for 'forwards' and 'sideways'. What special relativity says is that time is similar to space - although different observes will agree on the spacetime distance between events, they may not agree on how this splits up between time and space.
 
TheDonk said:
Time is not the 4th dimension. Well... depends on perspective. Why do people say time is the 4th dimension? I know you can say it's a dimension and there are already 3. But why not say mass is a dimension? Each point in space has a certain mass. What's the difference? Einstein said it and it became convention? That better not be the reason :mad: :rolleyes:.
I think it would be best when describing time with space and need to call it a dimension to say something like, "If you use time as a dimension then..."

Time and space mix together. What is a pure space-like separation for one observer is a mixture of space and time separation to another moving relative to the first.

It's this mixing together of space and time by the equations of relativity that that makes space-time a unified concept, usually called the space-time continuum.
 
TheDonk said:
Time is not the 4th dimension. Well... depends on perspective. Why do people say time is the 4th dimension? I know you can say it's a dimension and there are already 3. But why not say mass is a dimension? Each point in space has a certain mass. What's the difference? Einstein said it and it became convention? That better not be the reason :mad: :rolleyes:.
I think it would be best when describing time with space and need to call it a dimension to say something like, "If you use time as a dimension then..."
If you use time as a fourth dimension you will find the theory of relativity, which makes predictions that have been verified by experiments. If you use density as a fourth dimension you get nothing interesting. That's why we say that time is the fourth dimension. What that really means is that time is the fourth dimension of spacetime, which is a useful concept. You could say that density is the fourth dimension of "spacedensity", but that seems kind of pointless doesn't it?

(It doesn't really make sense to speak of the mass at a certain point. That's why I replaced mass with density).
 
Without time, spatial dimensions are meaningless. As Integral said, you cannot quantify distance [or force for that matter] without time.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 47 ·
2
Replies
47
Views
5K