Giant Magellan Telescope GMT Announcement

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the capabilities and implications of the Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT), particularly its potential to observe distant astronomical phenomena such as Population III stars and the last scattering surface (LSS) of the cosmic microwave background (CMB). Participants explore theoretical limits of visual observation and the types of signals the GMT might detect.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the GMT will be the largest observatory with significant collecting power and resolution compared to existing telescopes.
  • There is speculation about the GMT's ability to observe Population III stars and the last scattering surface, with questions raised about the nature of signals that could be detected from such distant phenomena.
  • One participant suggests that if an X-ray object existed at the same distance as the LSS, its light could be redshifted into the visible spectrum, potentially detectable by the GMT.
  • Another participant challenges the feasibility of such an X-ray object existing at the time when the universe was 300,000 years old, expressing skepticism about the likelihood of detecting such signals.
  • Discussion includes the Gunn-Peterson effect and its implications for visual observation limits as redshift increases, particularly beyond z > 10.
  • Some participants propose hypothetical objects, such as mini-black holes or intermediate-sized black holes, that could exist at great distances, although they acknowledge the low probability of such objects being present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the types of astronomical objects that could be observed by the GMT and the implications of redshift on visibility. There is no consensus on the feasibility of detecting signals from the last scattering surface or the existence of specific types of objects at those distances.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their assumptions about the existence of certain astronomical objects and the effects of redshift on visibility, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

meteor
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http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/work_begins_mgto.html
When it's complete, the Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT) will be the world's largest observatory, with a primary mirror 25.4 metres (83 feet) across - 4.5 times the collecting power of any telescope on Earth
The GMT will have ten times the resolution of the Hubble Space Telescope

I hope that this monster can be able to see the Population III stars and who knows, perhaps also the last scattering surface?
 
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meteor said:
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/work_begins_mgto.html



I hope that this monster can be able to see the Population III stars and who knows, perhaps also the last scattering surface?

meteor the last scattering surface is at around z = 1100, is it not?
am I missing something?
isn't the Magellan an optical telescope----visible light.

so what kind of signal would be coming from the last scattering surface
that Magellan would pick up?

Oh, maybe I see what you mean.
an Xray object which happens to be at the same distance as the LSS.
I personally can not think of any Xray object that might have existed that long ago, when the universe was 300,000 years old.
But suppose one existed (long before stars and galaxies condensed)
and sent us some Xray light----from z=1000---and that light was redshifted by a factor of 1000 and became visible light and was received by Magellan.

then Magellan would be seeing some Xray object at the same distance as the LSS of the CMB.

but it is a stretch for me to imagine. maybe you can clarify, if you can imamgine it more concretely than this
 
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marcus said:
Oh, maybe I see what you mean.
an Xray object which happens to be at the same distance as the LSS.
I personally can not think of any Xray object that might have existed that long ago, when the universe was 300,000 years old.
But suppose one existed (long before stars and galaxies condensed)
and sent us some Xray light----from z=1000---and that light was redshifted by a factor of 1000 and became visible light and was received by Magellan.

then Magellan would be seeing some Xray object at the same distance as the LSS of the CMB.

but it is a stretch for me to imagine. maybe you can clarify, if you can imamgine it more concretely than this
Any such object at the LSS would have caused far greater anisotropies in the CMB than at 1 part in 105 that COBE and WMAP have observed.

Actually we do see the LSS, it is in the microwave part of the spectrum and called the CMB!

Garth
 
But it is indeed an interesting question where the limit for visual observation is located. As soon as one enters the dark age (may be z > 10) the spectrum of the sources should have enough absobtion lines due to neutral hidrogen at different redshifts (Gunn-Peterson effect). I wonder whether it is possible to make a reasonable calculation of the limit at which visual observation will be almost impossible.
 
Yes marcus, I was thinking in some kind of object that could exist at that distance. It should be an X-Ray object, as you say. The possibilities of such an object existing are very low, in fact the first stars formed 200 million of years after BB. But who knows? Maybe is possible to find such an object at that distances, for example a mini-black hole? Or a black hole of intermediate size formed by the merging of mini-black holes? It would be interesting to see such a thing
 
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