Constructing Integers with 3,4,8,9 up to 101

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Discussion Overview

The thread discusses the challenge of constructing all integers from 1 to 101 using the digits 3, 4, 8, and 9, employing various mathematical operations such as addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and exponentiation. Participants share their solutions and methods, while also addressing the use of recurring decimals and the validity of certain approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants propose various equations to represent integers, such as 1 = (4 - 3) / (9 - 8) and 2 = 4 + 9 - 3 - 8.
  • Some participants express concerns about the validity of using certain operations, like the modulo function, which one participant describes as "cheating."
  • There are multiple representations for the same integer, with different participants suggesting various forms, such as 19 = (7 × 3) - (8 / 4) and 19 = 34 - (8 + 7).
  • Discussions about notation for recurring decimals arise, with suggestions for using symbols like .(3) or .\overline{3} to denote recurring values.
  • Participants correct each other’s work and suggest alternative methods for constructing integers, indicating a collaborative effort to refine solutions.
  • Some participants express frustration over specific integers that remain unsolved, such as 22 and 30, and seek assistance from others.
  • There are playful exchanges about the use of advanced mathematical concepts, like square roots and factorials, with some participants humorously acknowledging their "cheating" in using these methods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features a mix of agreement on certain solutions and disagreement on the validity of specific methods. Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approaches or the use of certain mathematical operations, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some solutions involve unresolved mathematical steps or assumptions about the operations allowed, particularly regarding the use of recurring decimals and advanced functions. The scope of the challenge is limited to the digits provided and the specified operations.

Who May Find This Useful

Mathematics enthusiasts, educators, and students interested in number theory or combinatorial challenges may find this discussion engaging and informative.

ceptimus
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Using each time all of the four digits: 3, 4, 8 and 9 construct all the integers up to and including 101. You may only use addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, the decimal point, raising to a power, and (if there is no other way) a recurring decimal. Decimal fractions without a leading integer are allowed. You can also run digits together to make numbers like 9 = 48 - 39

Factorials are not allowed, nor is the square root operation, and you can't use constructions like (3 + 4)8 to mean 78.

OK, I'll start you off:

[tex]1 = \frac{4 - 3}{9 - 8}[/tex]

[tex]2 = 4 + 9 - 3 - 8[/tex]

[tex]3 = \frac{4}{9.3(recurring) - 8}[/tex]

I know there are easier ways to make 3, but I wanted to show what I meant by recurring.

Have fun.
 
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[tex]4=9-3-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]5=\frac{8}{4}+\frac{9}{3}[/tex]
[tex]6=3+4+8-9[/tex]

[tex]7=(4+3)(9-8)[/tex]

[tex]8=3+4+9-8[/tex]

[tex]9=9(8-4-3)[/tex]

[tex]10=9+8-3-4[/tex]

Go me!
 
[tex]11 = (3)(4)+8-9[/tex]

[tex]12 = (3)(4)(9-8)[/tex]

[tex]13 = (3)(4)+9-8[/tex]

[tex]14 = 9+3+\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]15 = \frac{(8)(3)}{4}+9[/tex]

[tex]16 = 9+8+3-4[/tex]

[tex]17 = (9+8)(4-3)[/tex]

[tex]18 = 9+8+4-3[/tex]

[tex]19 = (3)(8)+4-9[/tex]

[tex]20 = \frac{9}{3}(4)+8[/tex]
 
[tex]11=49-38[/tex]


[tex]12=3*4*(9-8)[/tex]


[tex]13=(3*4)+9-8[/tex]


[tex]14=9+3+\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]15=8+4+\frac{9}{3}[/tex]


[tex]16=9+8-4+3[/tex]


[tex]17=34-9-8[/tex]


[tex]18=8+9+4-3[/tex]

[tex]19=4!-8+\frac{9}{3}[/tex] (cheater !)

[tex]20=(\frac{4}{3}*9)+8[/tex]


Someone please fix 19 for me. :redface:
 
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[tex]19=(7\times3)-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]19=34-(8+7)[/tex]

[tex]19=3^{7-4}-8[/tex]

------------------------------------------

[tex]21=(8\times3)+4-7[/tex]

[tex]22=(8\times4)-(7+3)[/tex]

[tex]23=\frac{8}{4}+(7\times3)[/tex]

[tex]24=7^3\bmod{4}*8[/tex]

[tex]25=(7\times3)+8-4[/tex]

[tex]26=\frac{38}{4}+7[/tex]

[tex]27=38-(4+7)[/tex]

[tex]28=43-(8+7)[/tex]

[tex]29=(8+4)\times3-7[/tex]

[tex]30=(7\times4)+8\bmod{3}[/tex]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nice work guys. :smile: But that mod function is cheating.
 
11 =49-38 =3*8 - 9 - 4 =3*4 +8 -9
12= (9-3)(8/4)
13= 3*4 +9 -8
14= 9+3+8/4
15= (9)(8/4)-3 = (3/4)*8+9 =9/3+4+8= 3*9 -4 -8
16= 3+8+9-4
17= 34-9-8=(4^3)/8 +9
18= +4 +8 +9 -3 =(9-3)*4-8
19= 3*8 +4 -9
20 = (4/3)*9 +8
 
rachmaninoff said:
[tex]19=(7\times3)-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]19=34-(8+7)[/tex]

[tex]30=(7\times4)+8\bmod{3}[/tex]

He want's 9's not 7's
 
[tex]41=9\cdot 4+8-3[/tex]
[tex]42=43-9+8[/tex]
[tex]44=43-8+9=8\cdot 4+9+3=(8+\frac{9}{3})\cdot 4[/tex]
[tex]46=89-43[/tex]
[tex]47=9\cdot 4+8+3[/tex]
[tex]51=34+8+9[/tex]
[tex]54=\frac{9\cdot 8\cdot 3}{4}=\frac{9\cdot 8}{.(4)\cdot 3}[/tex]
[tex]55=89-34=98-43[/tex]
[tex]56=4^{\frac{9}{3}}-8[/tex]
[tex]59=8\cdot 4+9\cdot 3[/tex]
[tex]60=43+8+9=8\cdot 9-3\cdot 4=8\cdot 3+9\cdot 4[/tex]
[tex]65=8\cdot 9-4-3=98-34[/tex]
[tex]71=8\cdot 9-4+3=8.(3)\cdot 9-4[/tex]
[tex]72=\frac{4^{3}}{8}\cdot 9=4^{\frac{9}{3}}+8[/tex]
[tex]73=8\cdot 9-3+4[/tex]
[tex]76=(9\cdot 3-8)\cdot 4[/tex]
[tex]79=8\cdot 9+3+4[/tex]
[tex]81=9\cdot 3^{\frac{8}{4}}[/tex]
[tex]82=89-3-4[/tex]
[tex]84=8\cdot 9+3\dot 4[/tex]
[tex]87=(\frac{3}{.(4)}\cdot 8)-9[/tex]
[tex]88=89-4+3[/tex]
[tex]90=89-3+4[/tex]
[tex]96=89+3+4=\frac{9\cdot 8\cdot 4}{3}=.(4)\cdot 3\cdot 9\cdot 8=.(3)\cdot 4\cdot 8\cdot 9[/tex]
[tex]97=98-4+3[/tex]
[tex]99=98+4-3[/tex]
[tex]100=\frac{3}{.(4)}\cdot 9-8[/tex]

Daniel.

Fill in the gaps
 
Last edited:
  • #10
dextercioby said:
[tex]19=\frac{8}{.3}+4-9[/tex]

[tex]30=\frac{8}{.4}+9+3[/tex]
I think we need to put in the (recurring) or some symbol that means that. I think Daniel's solution for 30, as written, is actually a solution for 32.

No doubt one of you LaTeX gurus will know the correct formatting for a recurring decimal. :smile:
 
  • #11
ceptimus said:
I think we need to put in the (recurring) or some symbol that means that. I think Daniel's solution for 30, as written, is actually a solution for 32.

No doubt one of you LaTeX gurus will know the correct formatting for a recurring decimal. :smile:

I feel like a jackass. :mad: I erased the message by mistake. :cry:
[tex]19=\frac{8}{.(3)}+4-9[/tex]
[tex]20=\frac{9\cdot 8}{3}-4=8\cdot 4-9-3[/tex]
[tex]21=\frac{8}{.(4)}+\frac{9}{3}[/tex]
[tex]23=9\cdot 3-8+4=\frac{8}{.4}+\frac{9}{3}[/tex]
[tex]24=\frac{8}{.(4)}+9-3[/tex]
[tex]25=9\cdot 3-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]
[tex]26=\frac{8}{.4}+9-3=8\cdot 4-9+3[/tex]
[tex]28=\frac{9\cdot 8}{3}+4=\frac{9}{.3}-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]
[tex]29=8\cdot 3+9-4[/tex]
[tex]30=\frac{8}{.(4)}+9+3[/tex]
[tex]31=9\cdot 3+8-4[/tex]
[tex]32=\frac{8}{.4}+9+3=\frac{9}{.3}+\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]33=34-9+8[/tex]
[tex]35=34-8+9=8\cdot 4+\frac{9}{3}[/tex]
[tex]37=8\cdot 3+9+4[/tex]
[tex]38=8\cdot 4+9-3[/tex]
[tex]39=9\cdot 3+8+4[/tex]

Daniel.
Fill in the gaps.
PS.I may have not transcripted everything i had before. I'll be a guru next year.Guru of physics... :-p
 
Last edited:
  • #12
He want's 9's not 7's
oops? :frown:

Btw, is this notation any good?

[tex]19=\frac{8}{.\overline{3}} + 4 - 9[/tex]
 
  • #13
rachmaninoff said:
oops? :frown:

Btw, is this notation any good?

[tex]19=\frac{8}{.\overline{3}} + 4 - 9[/tex]

In my fifth grade (11 years ago :wink: ) i learned that:
[tex]4,33333333333...=4.(3)=4\frac{3}{9}=4\frac{1}{3}=\frac{13}{3}[/tex]

So,for me,it's obvious the notation.And besides why write ".\overline{3}" when u can easily put two brackets:".(3)"...? :-p

Daniel.
 
  • #14
Some more

[tex]64=3^{4}-9-8[/tex]
[tex]80=3^{4}-9+8[/tex]
[tex]82=3^{4}-8+9[/tex]
[tex]98=3^{4}+9+8[/tex]

[tex]72=\frac{3^{4}}{9}\cdot 8[/tex]
[tex]69=\frac{3}{.4}\cdot 8+9[/tex]
[tex]51=\frac{3}{.4}\cdot 8-9[/tex]
[tex]81=9^{4-\sqrt[3]{8}}[/tex] CHEATING! :-p

Daniel.


PS.Ceptimus,it's not fair!Let us use at least [tex]\sqrt[3]{8}[/tex] or [tex]\sqrt{9};\sqrt{4}[/tex].Please... :cry:
 
Last edited:
  • #15
Just for clarity. I've attempted to fill the gaps for 21-30.
And I don't really like using the recurring decimal or decimal point. 22 and 30 are still missing non-decimal form.

[tex]21=3(9-\frac{8}{4})[/tex]

[tex]22=..?[/tex]

[tex]23=(9)(3)+4-8[/tex]

[tex]24=3+4+8+9[/tex]

[tex]25=(3)(9)-\frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]26=(8)(4)+3-9[/tex]

[tex]27=3^{4-(9-8))[/tex]

[tex]28=\frac{9}{3}8+4[/tex]

[tex]29=(3)(4)+8+9[/tex]

[tex]30=..??[/tex]
 
  • #16
Since that 22 is really eataing me alive,i decided to take the sword and cut the Gordian knot.
[tex]87=48+39=49+38[/tex]
[tex]22=(\sqrt[3]{8}\cdot 9)+4=8\cdot 3-[\frac{9}{4}]=[\frac{9}{.(8)}]+4\cdot 3=(9+\sqrt[3]{8})\cdot\sqrt{4}=...[/tex]


Daniel.
 
  • #17
Ha ha...using the greatest integer function is one quick way to cut a Gordian Knot all right ! :smile:
 
  • #18
[tex]22 = 9\cdot 3 - 4/.8[/tex]

[tex]30 = 4\cdot 8-3+.\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]87 = 3 \cdot 4 \cdot 8 - 9[/tex]

[tex]81 = \frac{(84 - 3)} {.\overline{9}}[/tex]

[tex]101 = 89+ \frac{3} {.4}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #19
[tex]43 = \frac{43} {9-8}[/tex]

[tex]45 = 93 - 48[/tex]

[tex]48 = (3+9) \cdot (8-4)[/tex]

[tex]49 = (3+4) \cdot (8-.\overline{9})[/tex]

[tex]50 = 48+3-.\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]52 = 48+3+.\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]57 = (3+4) \cdot 8 + .\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]63 = (3+8-4) \cdot 9[/tex]

[tex]70 = \frac{3+4} {.9-.8}[/tex]

[tex]77 = 89 - \frac{4}{.\overline{3}}[/tex]

[tex]78 = 39 \cdot \frac{8}{4}[/tex]

[tex]86 = 98 - 3 \cdot 4[/tex]

[tex]89 = \frac{89}{4-3}[/tex]

[tex]91 = 98 - 3 - 4[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #20
Someone required to play with 53 58 61 62 66 67 68 74 75 83 85 92 93 94 :-)
 
  • #21
Rogerio said:
[tex]101 = 89+ \frac{3} {.4}[/tex]
I've not checked all of them, but this one looks wrong:

3 / .4 = 7.5
3 / .444... = 6.75

I suppose you meant 4 / .(3)

However [tex]101 = 89 + 3 \times 4[/tex]
 
  • #22
ceptimus said:
I've not checked all of them, but this one looks wrong:
[tex]101 = 89+ \frac{3} {.4}[/tex]

I suppose you meant 4 / .(3)

No, I meant [tex]89 + 3 \cdot 4[/tex]

The frac was a cut&paste error :-)
 
  • #23
A little bit more:

[tex]53 = \frac{3 \cdot 8}{.\overline{4}} - .\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]61 = \frac{3 \cdot 8}{.4} + .\overline{9}[/tex]

[tex]92 = (3 \cdot 8 - .\overline{9}) \cdot 4[/tex]

[tex]93 = (4 \cdot 8 - .\overline{9}) \cdot 3[/tex]
 
  • #24
dextercioby said:
[tex]81=9^{4-\sqrt[3]{8}}[/tex] CHEATING! :-p

Daniel.


PS.Ceptimus,it's not fair!Let us use at least [tex]\sqrt[3]{8}[/tex] or [tex]\sqrt{9};\sqrt{4}[/tex].Please... :cry:

Isn't this just an excuse to get fancy?
[tex]81=\left(\frac{9}{3}\right)^{8-4}[/tex]
 
  • #25
((4+9)*8)-3 = 101
((9+4)*8)-3 = 101
 
  • #26
A little step:

[tex]74 = 38 + 4 \cdot 9[/tex]

[tex]75 = 93 - \frac{8}{.\overline{4}}[/tex]

[tex]94 = \frac{38}{.4} - .\overline{9}[/tex]


Resting 58 62 66 67 68 83 85 ...:-)
 
  • #27
Yeah,Nate,u're right,but it makes life easier... :-p
[tex]67=8^{[\frac{9}{4}]}+3[/tex]
[tex]66=8^{[\sqrt{3}]}+[\frac{9}{4}][/tex]
[tex]62=8^{[\sqrt{3}]}-[\frac{9}{4}][/tex]
[tex]58=8^{\sqrt{4}}-3-\sqrt{9}[/tex]
[tex]85=9^{[\sqrt{3}]}+8-4[/tex]
[tex]83=9^{\sqrt{4}}+\sqrt[3]{8}[/tex]

Sometimes cheating makes u winner. :-p

Daniel.

PS.You're right about 81,though:
[tex]81=3^{4(9-8)}[/tex]
:-p
EDIT:A mistake on the first page:
[tex]100=3\cdot 4\cdot 9-8[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #28
Rogerio said:
Resting 58 62 66 67 68 83 85 ...:-)

[tex]62 = \frac{9}{.3} + 4 \cdot 8[/tex]

Only 58 66 67 68 83 85
 
  • #29
Rogerio said:
Only 58 66 67 68 83 85

who did say that?!


[tex]58 = \frac{9 + 8.4}{.3}[/tex]

Just 66 67 68 83 85
 
  • #30
I give up. I need "power" !


[tex]66 = 11 \cdot \sqrt{4} \cdot \sqrt{9}[/tex]

[tex]67 = 8^{\sqrt{4}} + \frac{3}{.\overline{9}}[/tex]

[tex]68 = 34 \cdot \sqrt [\sqrt{9}] {8}[/tex]

[tex]85 = (8+9) \cdot (3+\sqrt{4})[/tex]

Done!
 
Last edited:

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