Electrons in Atoms: Do They Have a Current?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether electrons in atoms have an associated current, exploring the nature of electron behavior around the nucleus, including concepts of orbital angular momentum and magnetic dipole moments. The scope includes theoretical interpretations and conceptual clarifications regarding electron dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons do have a current associated with them, referencing the charge current formulation from the Dirac equations.
  • Others challenge the notion of electrons "revolving" around the nucleus, stating that this concept has not been valid for nearly a century.
  • It is noted that electrons can be described as having an orbital magnetic dipole moment due to their orbital angular momentum, but the terminology of "revolving" is debated.
  • One participant mentions the dual nature of electrons, suggesting they can be viewed as either particles or waves around the nucleus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the description of electron behavior, with no consensus on the appropriateness of terms like "revolve" or "current." The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these terms in the context of modern quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of electron behavior, the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics, and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical formulations related to electron dynamics.

rgshankar76
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Do the electrons revolving around the nucleus have a current associated with them?
 
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rgshankar76 said:
Do the electrons revolving around the nucleus have a current associated with them?

Yes of course.
The charge current is
[tex]j^{\mu}(x^{\mu})=-e\bar{\Psi}_{\alpha}(x^{\mu})}(\gamma^{\mu})^{\alpha}\\_{\beta} \Psi^{\beta}(x^{\mu})[/tex]
,where Psi bar and Psi are solutions of the Dirac equations for a Coulomb potential.Compute this 4 vector and compare to the one found for a free Dirac field.

Daniel.

PS.Chose the Dirac-Pauli representation of the Clifford algebra.
 
Except - of course - that electrons haven't "revolved" around the nucleus in almost a hundred years now...
 


And of course its a cloud, and we can't be sure of its energy state, and that its so fantastically complicated we've only produced clouds for the most basic elements, apart from that it's fine:-)
 
rgshankar76 said:
Do the electrons revolving around the nucleus have a current associated with them?

You should say "the orbital angular momentum of electrons causes them to have an orbital magnetic dipole moment, just as if they were revolving around the nucleus.

It's OK to say that electrons have orbital angular momentum, (see for instance

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/qangm.html

but it's in questionable taste to say that they actually revolve. (You can get away with saying they act as if they revolve if you don't actually say that they revolve, though). Similarly, it's OK to say that an electron iin free space has momentum, it's questionable to say that it is "moving" or has a "velocity" (well, sometimes you can get away with saying that an electron in free space has a velocity, but other times someone will complain when you say that).

Hope this helps :-)
 
I was told that the electron can be a particle or frequency around the nucleus
 

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