Explaining the Doppler Effect on Photons: Consistency with Wave Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Doppler Effect as it applies to photons and its consistency with wave theory. Participants explore the implications of a moving light source on the energy detected by an observer and the theoretical frameworks needed to understand these phenomena, including Newtonian and relativistic perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where a stationary light source emits photons of frequency f, leading to an energy loss detected by an observer, A, as E = nhf.
  • The same participant posits that if the light source is moving, the apparent frequency detected by A changes due to the Doppler Effect, resulting in a different energy loss calculation, E = nhv.
  • Another participant argues that the initial analysis is based on a Newtonian framework and suggests that relativistic effects must be considered, indicating that relativity provides a consistent theory for the Doppler Effect.
  • A third participant emphasizes that energy measurements depend on the reference frame, asserting that there is no "actual" energy loss of the emitter, similar to the concept of time being frame-dependent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate framework for analyzing the Doppler Effect on photons, with some advocating for a relativistic approach while others highlight the frame-dependent nature of energy measurements. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of applying Newtonian mechanics to phenomena involving light and the necessity of incorporating relativistic principles. There are unresolved aspects regarding the calculations and interpretations of energy loss in different reference frames.

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Consider a situation in which a light source is stationary with respect to an observer, A. This source emits n photons of frequency f, each of energy E = hf, towards A. Hence, A will be able to detect the energy loss in the source, which is E = nhf.

Now, this light source is moving with respect to A, and emits n photons of frequency f just like before. However, due to the Doppler Effect, the apparent frequency in which A detects is different, say v. As a result, the energy loss in the source detected at A will be E = nhv, and not E = nhf, which should be the actual energy loss.

How can this be explained? And is this consistent with the wave theory of light?
 
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You have done this all in a Newtonian framework. But because photons move at c you have to do it with the relativistic contractions/dilations. When you do this (there are many sites on the web that do the calculations, or you could read Spacetime Physics by Wheeler and Thorne), it all works out. Relativity provides a consistent theory of the doppler effect.
 
Well, what you are pointing out is simply that the energy a particle has depends upon the reference frame in which it is measured. There is no "actual" energy loss of the emitter just as there is no "actual" time that an event occurs, but rather these quantities must be related to a particular reference frame.

dhris
 
Thanks for the help, guys!
 

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